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noobmagician New user 52 Posts |
Here are my silly questions. Hope they're in the right forum. Sorry if they are not
1.) How does a magician get to the status that DC has or even close to it? I mean what makes one magician more famous than other magicians who have been around for ages. I'm sure that Ortiz's skill level in sleight of hand is probably way better than DC's. Yet half the world out there don't know who Ortiz at all. The same can be said about Dai Vernon, Gary Oulette and etc. These are people whose been in magic for ages. They perform, they have books, they come up new tricks and etc. They even consult magicians like DC. Yet again most people out there won't know who the heck these people are. Then what about the magicians that show up on "World's Greatest Magic" or other magic specials. Some of these performers are not "new" performers (Pendragon, McBride, and etc) yet they will never achieve the fame that guys like Lance Burton, Siegfried & Roy, and DC have. Heck even David Blaine and Pen & Teller are better known to the public. How does this happen? 2.) Can someone explain to me the miracle that is "David Blaine"? I don't mean to disrespect him but honestly how in the world did he make it so big when there are way more talented people out there in the world of magic. Another thing I don't see how sleeping in a block of ice for days on end is considered "magic". I guess it's magic cause he survived? 3.) Card and coin magic both require sleight of hand. But things like the zig-zag cigarette or the zig zag card does not because it's pretty much a prop based trick. Most performers shun prop based magic for close up acts. And no close up worker would ever fill his entire act with prop based magic. The funny thing is that prop based magic is perfectly fine for stage illusions. You can make an entire show using prop based tricks. Both close up and stage magic need practicing, misdirection, presentation and so on but does a stage illusionist need to know sleight of hand? Considering that they can base their entire act around props. DC is a perfect example, in all of his specials he uses a lot more prop based magic than sleight of hand. He throws in a few sleight of hands routines here and there but his major illusions are all prop based. 4.)How does one break into magic as a inventor of magical illusions. Inventors need not be a performer, just like a good mechanic does not mean he's a good racer car driver or even knows how to race one. If you did happen to come up with an incredibly idea how would you get name magicians to look at it? Where would you go with idea? Thanks |
philblackmore Regular user 199 Posts |
1 & 2 :Fame seems to come through TV. Having a TV special that captures the publics imagination. Then taking that initial burst of public enthusiasm and building on it until you enter the public consciousness.
David Copperfield did this with his big specials like vanishing the statue of Liberty, creating something the public will talk about and remember for years to come. David Copperfield has built on that by constant touring and hard work, I would guess he probably performs to more people in a year than any other performer. David Blaine did a similar thing. He made a TV special that captured the public eye. The main thing special about it was the concentration on the spectators reactions to the tricks rather than the tricks themselves. It worked,and the levitation bit really got people talking. He has since built on this with his publicity stunts that were heavily covered by the press and he became a leading media brand. He doesn't seem to have the raw performing talent that someone like David Copperfield has, or any live show, so we'll have to wait and see what happens with his career. Can he keep performing big stunts and then make money from endorsing products for ever? Siegfried and Roy seem different. They seem to have created their fame almost without TV. They became Las Vegas icons by performing constantly to thousands of people, with a show that people will remember. Also the white tigers gave them something special. 3: Most prop based close-up magic looks like toys. The whole Tenyo range is a toy product based on magic. A professional magician is trying to create a sense of awe and wonder, which couldn't be achieved if the audience thinks he is using plastic toys they could buy and do themselves. There would be no magic. In magic it is about trying to create a magical effect, the method is secondary to what the audience sees as the magic. With close up magic the clearest way of achieving the effect for the audience is often with sleight of hand. The effect can just seem to happen by magic, without clever props seemingly making it work. I think a similar thing applies to stage magic. You have to try and achieve the effect you want in the clearest way possible. However if you do use props at least the audience will not think you are using cheap toys. Some of the best illusions move away from obvious props. Snow effects,DC's flying, animated handkerchief, Blackstone's light bulb etc, etc. Whether sleight of hand is used or not is immaterial, its about whether you use the best method to achieve the effect the audience sees. 4: Just guessing as I've not done this: Make blue prints and prototypes then show them to the right people. Make sure you do your research to be sure your ideas are new. Who you show them to would depend on the type of effect. If it was a big illusion I'd probably try to get in touch with people like Bill Smith or John Gaughan, top illusion builders and designers. If they can't help you directly, they may be able to point you in the right direction. If it is something that Tenyo for example could produce then get in touch with them or someone that works for them. Keep asking around and "knocking on doors" and you would find the right people. I hope my ramblings have helped answer your questions in some way, Phil |
Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
I will try to give you my best guess.
1. How does one reach their status of David Copperfield? Timing is important. Being in the right place at the right time. David had appeared on TV several times as a magician from NJ. Nothing fantastic, but he got exposure. TV elevates one to stardom. If you got the money and the connections and get on TV you to will reach a point where you become nationally (internationally known). David's magic appealed to the emotions of the audience. His illusions were mini stage shows with a plot, a beginning middle and successful conclusion. He knew how to get the audience to connect with him and like him. When you take one of his shows and study it with Fitzkee's "Showmanship for Magicians" book, you get to see how Fitzkee "Theory of Showmanship" works with an audience. The names you mention each tell a story about style, public stunts, etc. To fully understand these guys requires study. To compete with them requires hard work and commitment and a lot of right connections. 2. Can someone explain to me the miracle that is "David Blaine"? Again, right connections and TV exposure. His age appealed to the youth, his style was bizzar and it appealed to the age group. He had a TV crew, He edited his own shows and he puzzled people. Hanging around the right circles helps. Having the money to do a TV special Helps. 3. Prop based magic...Or Why are Illusionist more popular than Close-up Artists? Again, the study of "Showmanship for Magicians" with a focus on a particular magician will get one to understand why, sound, lights, color, song, dance, people, youth, sex appeal, etc. connect with the audience. There is no emotion in most close-up magic, no music, no theatrics, no sex appeal, just mini puzzles of mystery. Mini puzzles of mystery only appeal to a select group characteristic of individuals. Some people absolutely hate puzzles. For instance, card tricks, are not favorites of woman and children as a group. Add personalities to the equation and the group shrinks more. There is a lot more to this and I just only scratched the surface on why big, beautiful, suspenseful, danger, drama appeal to the masses. Comedy shows do not win Oscars, Drama show usually take that prize. Understand the reasoning of this and you will understand why illusionist with a focus on drama do well! 4. How does one break into magic as a inventor of magical illusions? Creativity is a skill. Just like any other skill. One can't just wake-up and "poof" he is a plumber, electrician, carpenter. An illusionist designer must be mechanically inclined. He must know a lot of things about the magic industry. Again, Fitzkee's "The Trick Brain" helps the mind to create. Take Chance Wolf for instance, and what do you see? When you look at his work? Is it new? The secret is not new... the style, method of delivery, the wackyness, the humor, the boldness, the color, the construction are all unique to him. Now take Tilford and make the same comparison. Originality comes from within. It is something one must do all the time to get good at it. Creativity is a skill that requires daily practice. This is why when Chance Wolf comes out with a product I immediately look at it with a big smile on my face. It is a work of art from a creative genius, or should I say Chance practicing his creative skills. How about Paul Osborne's every other month, creating a new illusion in the Genii Magazine. One must do this daily to get good at it. Barry Mitchell's new book on Creativity is a must read for those who want to aspire to be a creative genius. Barry has stated he hates magic, but "Oh how he loves to create new magic." When you meet men like this, and read their work and see their product, you get an instant respect for their work. It is not easy and these guys are not in their teens. Artists generally starve to death and their genius doesn't come out for years later. Illusion designers are artists and there is not a big demand for their work. And when they develop one, within a week someone rips it off! Not hard to do with wood! To become an illusion designer, you must read all there is about illusions, study the master, the book writers, get all the illusion plans you can find and study them. Using the "The Trick Brain" method, think of what it is you want to do, think of how you want it presented and then apply the method, the design, and build a mock model. You may like it but will the audience? Just take Copperfield's "Flying". It took 7 years to develop it and perfect it. So many things could go wrong. It is a combination of different illusions, all linked and flowing. It truly is a work of art. Hope this sparks some thoughts, because there is no one answer that is correct, just a lot of hard work and study.
Dennis Michael
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Daniel Faith Inner circle Neenah, Wisconsin 1526 Posts |
Mass marketing... When you perform for the masses your bound to become more famous. Particularly when TV is the media you utilize.
Daniel Faith
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Marshall Thornside Inner circle chicago 2016 Posts |
4. Most illusion builders are performers. and usually to build a trick you need to know how to perform it to get the maximum smoothness while building it. My dad built 5 light bulb cabinets, each one bought by either Blackstone Jr; Mark Wilson, Reveen, Doug Henning or someone, and each one he built was better than the first. Same with the blade box, he built two and the first he built is now being used in a side show review in New York. one of our close friends, Jim Sommers was a performer also, and he now builds magic full-time. He has built several things based on ideas and I believe because he performed them they became better too. How do you get stuff out there? Just perform them.
you will remember my name
World's Youngest Illusionista 7th greatest pianist in the world Go Red For Women and Stroke Ambassador www.mai-ling.net |
harp New user Oklahoma 71 Posts |
I want to add one more thing to Dennis' response:
"Being in the right place at the right time." is key only if you are prepared. Harp |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Copperfield ran an ad in the Chicago paper, Magician for Hire, looking for work. Blaine met a WallStreet Broker, you should be on television.
Money backing to get things going. It is who you know and if they have the confidence to support you and put their money in you. It is up to you from there. Analize all you want, but sitting in front of computer is not going to make any dream come true. It takes action and hard work along with the "MONEY". Bill |
Marshall Thornside Inner circle chicago 2016 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-01-17 22:38, wmhegbli wrote: are you talking about when david did the show at the first national bank by the chagall after my parent's did theirs?
you will remember my name
World's Youngest Illusionista 7th greatest pianist in the world Go Red For Women and Stroke Ambassador www.mai-ling.net |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Marshall,
I have heard from traveling magician that David's ad was a spring board to "meeting the right person", it got him the Chicago version of Henning's "The Magic Show", this lead to his future. Bill |
JustinDavid Veteran user 370 Posts |
Interesting, I never knew that. Thanks Bill.
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Matt Graves Special user Huntsville, Alabama (USA) 504 Posts |
1. What separates somebody like David Copperfield from somebody like Dai Vernon would be the same thing that separated Houdini from Dai Vernon - the ability to sell oneself. That can be done in many different ways. In Houdini's day, there was no such thing as network television. But his reputation spread like wildfire, and it was due to his incredible showmanship and ability to promote himself. Even David Copperfield has said that Houdini wasn't that great of a magician per se. But he knew how to sell himself. No kidding, I think this ability has at least a hundred times more to do with your success than your level of skill.
2. David Blaine also knows how to sell himself. Some of what he does may not be considered magic, but it is still awe-inspiring and captures people's attention. Plus, his realistic stunts help create a little doubt in the minds of the gullible, that maybe his magic is real. He also acts a little bit psychotic, if you haven't noticed, which is a drastic change from the suave demeanor of most professionals. Penn and Teller act pretty wacky sometimes, but it's all in fun. Blaine makes you wonder. Sometimes psychotic acts really catch on. Just look at acts like Marilyn Manson or Eminem. Surely there have been more talented singers, but . . . they are abnormal enough to capture attention. 3. I find that interesting too. The best I can gather, if you're a stage performer, you only need to know how to perform whatever you have in your act. Then again, it couldn't hurt to know a few smaller tricks in case one of your friends asks to see one sometime . . . 4. Lots of magicians have e-mail addresses and websites. Most of the ones I've written are very friendly and helpful, even big-name ones like Max Maven and Tom Mullica. _Magic For Dummies_ gives lots of magicians' e-mail addresses. It also gives Looy Simonoff's phone number - and he has invented some truly genius stuff. If I had a really good idea, I'd run it by him. |
MasterofMystery New user 13 Posts |
Hello, does anyone know where to get the info on an illusion David C performed on TV. Here is how it went. A solid table, slate of glass or steel is sitting upon what seems to be saw horses. a folded up sheet of cloth is on top. you seem to see clearly under the table, the cloth begins to move slightly and rises upward and the magi apears on top. Any clue on where I can find the info to duplicate this.
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-06-13 12:38, MasterofMystery wrote: Brett - The illusion you are interested in is called "One", and was created by your friend, Andre Kole, and is being performed by David Copperfield. (According to information shared on the other threads.) There is more discussion about it on these two recent threads: Thread titled... David Copperfield Appea......tal Tour thread titled... David Copperfield´s ONE - Donald.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Wmhegbli wrote:
Quote:
Blaine met a WallStreet Broker, you should be on television That's not the way Bill Kalish tells it. David made a video and took it to ABC as an example of what he did. He did the pitch himself, and managed to get a budget for it by telling them what his market appeal would be and how he could make them money. Read that last part carefully. That's the key. HOW HE COULD MAKE THEM MONEY. Barry Mitchell's book is okay. But I wouldn't call it a "Must." I would go outside the trade for ideas on how to be creative.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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