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lcwright1964 Special user Toronto 569 Posts 
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Mr. Aronson takes nearly 50 pages of The Aronson Approach to cover this card mentalism effect, but having just gotten through his exhaustive explanation I have concluded that the essence of the effect is not very complex after all--the fishing requires between three to five (implied) questions (about the same as with, say, Kennedy's Mind Power deck), and the system really does make sense and is not hard to remember after one works through a few examples.
That said, I haven't found much discussion of the trick in the Café, and I have even read in Mike Close's Workers that the trick really doesn't translate well from theory to real world practice (my paraphrase). Does anyone here actually DO the trick. Like most intense mentalism effects it takes a few minutes, with exacting presentation and explanations, running through the entire deck twice (once for each spectator), and the "No No's" fishing procedure, but I really do think that well done it could be a blockbuster. Any thoughts? Les |
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JanForster Inner circle Germany ... when not traveling... 4192 Posts
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I have done it quite often in the past - I think it is a fantastic piece of work and art! Today I still do it occasionally if circumstances are right. You might consider to look up my take on it which is a streamlined version using only 20 cards from a shuffled deck and also using existing stacks. I have published it in German, once in English (for mindvention 2011 in "Regards from Europe", out of print unfortunately, and there will be no reprint). But it will be in my upcoming English book (eventually already end of this year). You find it also in Eric Richardson's ebook "Tour" under the title "Jan's Eyes". Jan
Jan Forster
www.janforster.de |
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lcwright1964 Special user Toronto 569 Posts
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Quote:
On Aug 19, 2014, JanForster wrote: I have just downloaded the Richardson book. Your effect alone is worth the twelve bucks, but of course it contains so much more more superb stuff. Thank you for the tip! Les |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts
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Barry Richardson has a version as well in Act Two.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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lcwright1964 Special user Toronto 569 Posts
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Quote:
On Aug 19, 2014, JanForster wrote: find it also in Eric Richardson's ebook "Tour" under the title "Jan's Eyes". Jan, I just gave Jan's Eyes and initial read-through and I like it! Compared to Simon's original it runs faster, eliminates the risk of one spectator noticing the relationship between selections (if he bothers to count), and uses the random-appearing Aronson stack instead of the specialized rosary stack in Simon-Eyes. That said, your version seems to rely a bit more on rote memory (at least to my reading), and it actually seems to involve a little MORE fishing than Simon-Eyes, where there are at most five statements (Spot, Low, Curved Index, Curved Pip, Suit) and often four and occasionally three. Moreover, your approach allows for no's, which the original is proud to avoid. Of course, when yours hits a no, it is only once and it leads you to the answer immediately, which is better than the Mind Power deck where you may have to get two no's before concluding. So I have a couple of questions: 1. As you have dispensed with Simon's original "no no's" requirement, have you found this this weakens the effect in anyway? As you recommend convincing patter to recover from a "no" I suspect not… 2. For those of us who use Mnemonica, have you or anyone else discovered a pair of 10-card runs from which a system like yours might be derived? If not, I'm going to start looking for one… 
Thanks again for leading me to your superb work. Les |
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lcwright1964 Special user Toronto 569 Posts
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On Aug 19, 2014, lcwright1964 wrote: Jan, I just PM'd you with my suggested approach to your routine using selections from Mnemonica. It is not as slick as your Aronson-based approach, but as I know Mnemonica cold I have already committed my algorithm to memory and can't wait to try it on unsuspecting muggles 
Les |
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lcwright1964 Special user Toronto 569 Posts
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Jan, thanks for responding to my PM. I have decided I really should go with a solid learning of the Aronson stack and do it your way. It's better. Les
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JanForster Inner circle Germany ... when not traveling... 4192 Posts
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Thanks
. Two remarks: The fact that I could get one "No" in the process (which leads immediately to the thought of card) does not (my experience using both versions) diminish the effect at all. I wrote also that I had to sacrifice Simon's premise in order to use a known stack. The stack does not get destroyed in my version, the memory work is minimal (if it all) provided you know your stack well and cold.
I know Barrie Richardson's version (I wrote about it as well) which is good but uses a special (one pony tool) stack. My goal was a streamlined version using existing stacks which will be not destroyed in the process of performing. Jan
Jan Forster
www.janforster.de |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts
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Your version sonds very intriguing Jan. I've been meaning to pick up Eric Richardson's book for awhile, now I really have no excuse not to.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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JanForster Inner circle Germany ... when not traveling... 4192 Posts
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It is a great deal anyway, great value for very little money. And this is true also for Eric's other books! Jan
Jan Forster
www.janforster.de |
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lcwright1964 Special user Toronto 569 Posts
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On Aug 19, 2014, landmark wrote: I flipped through Act Two in my local magic shop tonight. I think my favourite part of Barrie Richardson's treatment is the SILENT confirmation (people who have seen the book will know what I mean). As a Mnemonica man I have roughed out my own solution (though probably not original) using Mnemonica order (albeit rearranged). Fishing requires at most three probes, but one outcome risks two "no" responses on the way. Jan's Eyes uses native Aronson, can go to as many as four probes (though usually two or three at most), and never gets more than one "no". Richardson's Final Ecstasy is quite streamlined but requires a special. It's a great card plot and I am excited to discover alternatives to Aronson's brilliant though most involved version. Les |
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lcwright1964 Special user Toronto 569 Posts
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On Aug 21, 2014, lcwright1964 wrote: Eek, I am reinventing the wheel. A Mnemonica version of this effect, divining THREE cards, is called The Three Hours and is at p. 65 of the book Mnemonica Checking it out now…
Les |
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JanForster Inner circle Germany ... when not traveling... 4192 Posts
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Thanks for this hint
. I am still on tour but will check it out next week when I am back at home and have access to my (quite big ) library. Jan
Jan Forster
www.janforster.de |
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rmorrell Loyal user 262 Posts
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The Three Hours is a fantastic version of this trick, and for those that don't use a mem deck or want to research this plot even further you may want to check out Lewis Jones The Fisher King in Seventh Heaven, a brilliant version using a non memorised stack that retains the positive fishing, and allows you to do this for three people.
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lcwright1964 Special user Toronto 569 Posts
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After researching the various alternatives I have come back to the Aronson original, and despite one-trick-pony stack I still really love the treatment. The stack and the fishing algorithm are really easy to follow (once learned). Also, it occurred to me that there is no requirement whatsoever to do a full deck version and run through all 52 cards for each selection. One could set up only part of the stack and use that--the only requirement is that one more card than the maximum allowed secret number is set. Also, because of the cyclical nature of the stack the sub-stack setup can start and end anywhere and the fishing algorithm will work unchanged.
This all provides several options. One can start with the full-deck stack, preserve it with a false shuffle, but do TRUE complete cuts and start the first selection anywhere. For the second selection, the deck can be given convincing looking jog shuffles that preserve the required top stock (up to the maximum allowed secret number), but destroy the rest of the stack that won't be needed. Alternatively, one can start with a partial stack on top, and keep it there with jog shuffles and false cuts at the beginning and prior to the second selection. I don't know if Aronson mentions a partial-stack version explicitly in the original discussion, but he does allude to the performer tweaking the ordering so as to facilitate fishing as he prefers. In any case, there still seems to be great possibilities for this effect even though it was published over twenty years ago. I look forward to trying it out with real people eventually
Les |
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lcwright1964 Special user Toronto 569 Posts
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I wanted to bump this topic as I remain obsessed with this trick and its spin-offs.
I continue to recommend Eric Richardson's excellent Tour--a book and videos for twelve bucks is a bargain, even if one only uses one or two effects. Therein there is a version of Tamariz's The Three Hours for Aronson people. Jan Forster's Jan's Eyes is of course awesome, and I have been inspired to work out my own version of Jan's Eyes for a portion of the Mnemonica stack (PM me for details). I still continue to believe that the original Simon Eyes, perhaps in an abbreviated form (i.e., using a subset of twenty or for fewer cards per spectator) is brilliant in its own right. I don't think the one-trick pony stack need be completely useless. I think leading in with Aronson's excellent Two Deck Canasta with both packs in Simon Eyes order would make for a great prequel. I am also trying to work out a solution to Simon Eyes that uses two separate half decks. Aronson alludes to this in his comments as an idea of John Bannon's, but he doesn't provide specifics. Thanks everyone for contributing to this discussion. Les |
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chado158 New user Indianapolis, IN 80 Posts
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Can you perform Tamariz's 3 Hours with Aronson stack?
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lcwright1964 Special user Toronto 569 Posts
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On Sep 19, 2014, chado158 wrote: Yes. It's called "Three Hours More" and can be found in Eric Robertson's new e-book, "Tour". Well worth the measly 12 bucks. |
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chado158 New user Indianapolis, IN 80 Posts
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On Sep 19, 2014, lcwright1964 wrote: thanks for that info. I read over it in Mnemonica and it sounds tremendous. where can I find Mr. Robertson's book at? I did a search with no results |
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lcwright1964 Special user Toronto 569 Posts
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On Sep 19, 2014, chado158 wrote: Eric Richardson. Sorry for the error. Should find it now. I downloaded mine from Vanishing Inc. Les |
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Posted: Aug 19, 2014 02:57 pm 
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