Hello,

I'm having some trouble with the back pinch grip. So holding the pea between my middle and ring finger at the back of my hand.

Basically the grip is really weak, the pea keeps dropping, plus there is a slight gap in my fingers so the pea is slightly visible (but you have to be really looking for it).
Changing the hands position between palm up and curled makes the pea loosen and more likely to fall out.

On top of all of that, my hand is in quite a bit of pain. It hurts to hold that pea!

I'm following Bob Sheets's Boot Camp, and he claims the most important thing is to get the sequence down and refine the movements later. Well, I'm getting the sequence, but I don't know if I should continue practising if I'm doing something completely wrong.

Or am I doing it correctly and I just need to practice enough for it to stop hurting and to develop the muscles to grip the pea?

Do any of you have any tips?

Many thanks,

Sam

Sam:

You may have dry hands that are preventing you from getting a good grip on the pea. Try a non-greasy lotion (I use Chamberlain's Golden Touch) and see if that helps. A lot of practice helps, too!

The back finger clip many have trouble with. The thing is no one has the some shape fingers.
Doing it like someone else does not always work. The back finger clip is one of my favorite clips.

What I try to tell others trying to learn this back clip. You need to find the best spot on YOUR fingers to clip it.

For me it is the third & forth fingers just before it goes into the V area. Many use the second & third fingers.
I like the third & fourth fingers because it is closer to the surface to control the pea to any area of the hand or into a shell.
The pea will also not flash as much being down lower to the surface.

To do a back finger clip right, your hand and fingers should be relaxed. You will find it is even easier, if they are relaxed.

The main thing is you need to find that G spot between two fingers that takes a very little amount of pressure to hold the pea

From you saying your fingers are hurting from practicing it, this tells me you are most likely applying too much pressure and your hand is not relaxed.

If you apply too much pressure, it will just push the ball out of the fingers and your hand will look like you are clipping something between the fingers.
If you practice with a relaxed hand and a soft pea, you will be surprised on how fast you will get it

A soft pea is the best for doing a back finger clip. Most the ones I have worked with having this problem, the softer KDS -Peas has helped them a lot.

This type pea we make and sell at www.3shells.com

If you would like more help you can pm me.

Al

When using this grip you need to be lower than the spectators eyes. I have done this practing and if they are at the other end of the table it can be seen. I held it low, just off the surface, it could be seen. Now this was practing and I had my helper looking for it. I am a rookie at this so I would like to hear others experiences and tips.
Thanks,
David

David
This is why I like using the third & fourth fingers. The pea is lower in the fingers and it is just a manner of how you turn your hand. Yes, if you have someone viewing from the side of you, having your hand lower to the surface and your hand turned up is the best. But this works good having the hand low to the surface, because now you can control the pea on the surface by the movement of the hand for the pea to roll under the fingers with the movement of the hand to where you want it next. You don't want to leave it there. What is so good about the back finger clip, it brings much more then just showing your hands empty. You have the pea in a position to put the pea anywhere you want. By the natural movement of your hand on the surface. The three moves I think are important to master with the pea; the finger clip, back finger clip and the thumb clip. You can use all three of these moves in one natural display to show your hands empty after the steal on both sides of your hand. Then picking up the other two shells and showing them empty. You can then in placing them down load another shell.

I am going to try out putting the pea in the 3rd and 4th fingers. This may be just what I need. Thanks Al.
David

David
Also from your earier post about the spectators eyes being lower then your hands. I think your helper is not looking at how a spectator would be veiwing it.
The spectators eyes are never lower then your hands down close to the surface. You need him to watch it the way it is normally viewed.
Also a video camera is good, if it is set at a normal spectators view.

Why I had him looking so low was trying to simulate a child watching. My table could be eye level for kids. If a kid sees it he will say it! Loud! I didn't want to get busted so I just decided to not do it yet. I just go out a few times a year on the streets so it wasn't a big deal. However, I do want to learn to do it right. That is why I appreciate the help you are giving me.
Thanks,
David

This is why I'm telling you this. You always want the spectator or player looking down on what you are doing. If you look at the real shell workers on the streets, most of them are working on the ground with a mat. Look on Youtube for 3 shell game videos. The lower you are working the less they can see. But don't take this wrong, you do not need to work on the ground. But never at eye level.

It is good you are asking questions to learn.

Keep it up,

Al

Hello,

Sorry for the delay in replying! I've been hectic ever since I originally posted.

LeoH - I followed your suggestion, but unfortunately it seemed to make things a little worse, I'll try again with a different lotion.

shellgame-al - Thanks for the advice, I'll experiment with different areas of my hand to see if anywhere feels a little more comfortable. I have skinny fingers with lots of "windows", so the fingers don't quite press together in most places.
I'll also work on ensuring my hand is relaxed, I agree with you and obviously my hand is currently quite tense or else it wouldn't be hurting!

David95 - I guess that will become a problem for me once I begin to get comfortable with the grip. I'm not at that stage yet. Plenty more work to go!

Cheers,

Sam

Sam

Try clipping the pea in the V area between the back of the fingers, where the fingers come off the hand.
The V area will give more support on the pea.
You might find less window there and maybe even hold better for you.
I don't think any lotions are a answer to helping.
The only lotion I ever found to work well and I only used it when doing some very hard coin moves was Huskers lotion.
Most lotions have a oil base in it and can make it worst, as it will soak into the pea.

Al

Hello everyone,

Thanks so much for all of the help and advice.

I wanted to publicly thank Al, he went well out of his way to help me (both in this thread and privately).
Having followed his advice I have improved tremendously with the back pinch grip. I've also started using his soft peas, which make this (and most other moves) a lot easier. It is definitely worth purchasing a set of these. Follow the link in his first post.

Cheers,

Sam

You might try Octopalm http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/4674. I haven't tried it for that but might work.

It is a great product. Cheap too. Comes with download of some good tricks even if it doesn't help with shell game.

Sam

Stick to what is working for you. In my opinion you can't get better advice than Al's. He has helped me a lot, in many ways.

When you have a problem, you find a solutions. When something is working, stick with it. You will just get better.

The soft KDS peas I just received from Al have made my back pinch almost easy. Excellent, prompt service too.

I cannot praise Al high enough for the help and kindness he has shown me and so many others,and his advice is always spot on!

Using a relaxed grip is essential!

As far as using a lotion I prefer not to use one in practice if I can avoid it, but in performance there is nothing better than Al's CLIP & GRIP if you want total security.

It gives you a perfect grip. I use it in card and coin work too since I have dry hands. it is inexpensive and available at:

http://www.3shells.com/store/p132/Clip_%......ack.html

Oh, and don't forget to use Al's soft peas!

Andre

Thank you guys!

The CLIP & GRIP; was intended to be a helpful learning aid for training your memory muscles to clip or palm items.

Mostly for the ones that have the dry hand problem and an aid for anyone that wants to learn to clip or palm hard type items like a cork ball, coins, and cards.

I think the clip & grip is really NOT NEEDED for clipping a soft pea, if the soft pea has some good give to it, like the soft KDS- peas.

If you are using a harder type pea, then the clip & grip may help. But I would recommend just using a softer pea.

If the pea has some good give to it, it will form to the fingers to stay between the fingers with light pressure.

This is the key; *Light pressure with a relaxed hand.*

The Clip & Grip is no miracle paste, it is just a helpful memory muscle training aid and with practice, it most likely will not be needed even when clipping hard type items.

You will know when your memory muscles are trained as you won't even need to think about doing the move.
It will just become a natural movement.

Hi Al, well I've been practicing that and not much else for a couple of weeks and now the pinch is easy, currently with your peas as I said. I imagine I will eventually be able to do it with the sfs peas too. I'm using Black Fox scarab and superior walnut sets, and I have the vernet and sfs antique brass. I'll also get one of yours soon no doubt. It's all very addictive. I also have at least 4 DVDs. I can't help feeling this is going to become one of those life-long hobbies.

Caubeck

That's great. Now that you are getting the handling of the pea down, you can start working on building your own routine and start having the real fun!