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arthur stead Inner circle When I played soccer, I hit 1773 Posts |
In 1982 and '83, when I was musical director for the The Mamas and the Papas, we often co-headlined with other music legends, including The Association, Gary Puckett, The Turtles, Leon Russell, etc.
One day, John Phillips told me he had run into Joe Cocker, sitting alone and looking very sad. He could see that Joe had been crying. When John asked what the matter was, Joe told him his mother had died. "I'm so sorry to hear that," said John, offering his condolences. But Joe interrupted him, saying, "That's OK ... it happened a long time ago." |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
The issue is really moot as I seriously doubt that Joe Cocker, Janice Joplin, Jim Morrison, et al, would ever have even considered participating in a show like American Idol. I imagine they would have felt quite a bit of disdain for that kind of corporate appropriation and control over the music industry.
They were products of the counterculture and the antithesis of what pop entertainment has become today. (Can you imagine Phil Ochs or Bob Dylan on such a show? How about Frank Zappa, Country Joe, or The Fugs?)) May Joe Cocker rest in peace. He will be dearly missed. As is that entire era. |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
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On Dec 23, 2014, arthur stead wrote: Great story. Thanks Arthur. |
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
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On Dec 23, 2014, mastermindreader wrote: Something else we'll never know for sure. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
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On Dec 23, 2014, rockwall wrote: I remember Grace Slick responding to the charge of "selling out". She said that she'd have sold out long before, but nobody was buying. Let's not be too sure of the artistic integrity of our heroes. They appeared on TV (e.g. Ed Sullivan) whenever the offers came in. They even censored their lyrics at the demand of the networks. I think Neil Young kept to his principles. And I'm very certain he never would have made it past the audition of a show like AI.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Wow, sometimes LOL is quite insufficient.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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lynnef Inner circle 1407 Posts |
Billy Joel as recently as Sept said that Joe Cocker belonged in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I saw Joe Cocker in concert with Tina Turner in the 90's... he was leaping around the stage; and I was thinking what great shape he was in. Alas, he will be missed. Lynn
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Marlin1894 Special user 559 Posts |
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On Dec 23, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: Dylan was scheduled to be on Sullivan and made it through one rehearsal with "Talkin' John Birch Society Blues" but at dress rehearsal he asked to do a different number, or change some of the lyrics. He politely declined, which was a pretty big deal because that was before he broke big and would have been an important apperance. He never did appear on the show. |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Hi Magus-
Remember how Jim Morrison responded to Ed Sullivan's request to change the words "Girl we couldn't get much higher?" Afterwards, after ignoring Sullivan, the Doors were told they'd never work the show again. Morrison replied, "So? We already DID the Sullivan show." Also recall what happened to the Smothers Brothers Show after they presented Pete Seeger singing "Waist Deep in the Big Muddy." I would have paid a fortune, though, to see Country Joe and the Fish on the Sullivan show. But Grace Slick actually made a good point. No one ever ASKED HER. That's the entire point. You either did it their way, or you didn't get on television. I still find it ironic, though, to see how many of today's right wingers embrace the music of the 60's counter culture. Pretty funny, actually. |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
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On Dec 23, 2014, S2000magician wrote: Cmon, S2000, you understand what I mean better than that, I think. And that's where the "gaslighting" reference comes in. Sometimes a girl will give up trying. If you can't acknowledge that someone is allowed to respond to your comments without implying their presence is inappropriate, by all means, continue on your merry way. |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
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On Dec 23, 2014, mastermindreader wrote: I was going to mention The Doors in response to that, too. As for the last paragraph, good music is good music; I think it's funnier when people let their politics p event them from appreciating any sort of artistic endeavor, such as boycotting movies that a particular actor appears in.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
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On Dec 23, 2014, mastermindreader wrote: Joe did appear on the show, though, Bob. He also did attempt to keep himself contemporary to a degree. He sang a couple of songs (co)written by Kara DioGuardi. "And among those many songs were the two which has DioGuardi's name on them, whom Cocker had met when he appeared on American Idol earlier in 2010 year. To her credit as a songwriter-for-hire and through working with others, she delivered two standouts, the raw ballad Unforgiven (mostly the work of co-writer Mitch Allen) and the gospel-influenced Thankful." http://www.elsewhere.co.nz/absoluteelsew......-knocks/ "Up Where We Belong" was pretty commercial, but he was commissioned to do it, which he appreciated. "Guitar solos sent to the LA studio from England by Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck remind you of the high regard in which Cocker is held by his peers, although he admits that hit Up Where We Belong didn’t please everyone. 'I had friends who said they’d rather just remember me singing my old stuff. And at first I didn’t want to record it, I hated it because it was so sweet. But eventually when we got into it I thought it had something special. 'I realised Up Where We Belong was pretty commercial but any singer when commissioned to do something for a movie -- and they don’t do that much any more, it was nice to be asked for specifically -- would get into it. I thought it was a challenge.'” http://www.elsewhere.co.nz/absoluteelsew......elonged/ |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Yes, he DID appear on the show, Laurie. And I loved it. My point was simply that I don't think any of his era would have appeared on the show had it been on the air back in the sixties. It was a different era, and many AT THAT TIME would have viewed it as a corporate sell out.
But, as Mick Jagger once sang, "Things are different today, I hear every mother say..." BTW- Merry Christmas! |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
I understand, Bob, and I mentioned earlier, in response to John:
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On Dec 23, 2014, magicalaurie wrote: Thankyou! Merry Christmas! |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Of course, the whole industry has changed. Young artists have a much harder time getting gigs today than they did 40-50 years ago. And they play for a lot less money today than they did in the past.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
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On Dec 23, 2014, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: Yes and no. Back in the beginning guys like Buddy Holly and the Crickets would record in their garages, get a dozen records pressed and then personally take them to local radio stations to beg for airtime. That's really how many got started. Today you can get more exposure on one live appearance on American Idol that many early greats ever had until much later in their careers. We've lost so many this year. It was written with a different context, but still I have the main verse of "Where Have all the Flowers Gone" passing through my head. |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Yeah, but how many local clubs hire live musicians any more? A decent band got paid more for a high school dance in the mid-70s than most band get for playing in clubs today (when they can get the gigs). The days of 6 consecutive nights in the same venue vanished by the early 90s.
It is much cheaper to record today than it was in the past, but, man, it's hard to get gigs.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Very true, but I think that it also depends on where you're looking for work. Here in Seattle, for example, there are many live music clubs and venues. But we're known for that. Other places, not so much.
There aren't many night spots that have floor shows any more either. But, somehow, I still manage to get by. We have a pretty eclectic performing arts community here. But you've hit on the reason why I now do most of my club work in LA, New York and other large cities that attract a lot of tourists. It's where the work is. |
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arthur stead Inner circle When I played soccer, I hit 1773 Posts |
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On Dec 23, 2014, mastermindreader wrote: Well said, Bob! Two things: 1. I share their disdain about shows like American Idol. Worst thing that could have happened to the music industry. 2. I wonder who else remembers The Fugs! |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Remember their album, "Golden Filth?"
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