I have enormous hands with long fingers. From the base of my hand to the tip of my middle finger is 8.45 inches. The middle finger measured from the crease at the bottom of the finger is 3-5/8 inches and my span (how far it is from the tip of my thumb to the tip of my pinky with outstretched hand) is 11 inches.

I'm wondering if there is any prevailing wisdom on hand-size and which retention vanish might work best? For example - In trying to do David Roth's handling, it seems like every slightest move of my hand and/or fingers is amplified exponentially by the large size of my hand and fingers. I just cannot seem to minimize finger movement, knuckle-bends, etc. enough. My mitts also seem to be a hinderance in using Vinny's Rice Krispies take on the ROV vanish.

I'm aware of a couple of other handlings for the steal - one being to take it into high finger palm (not sure if that's the right term for holding it between the middle and outer joint creases rather than the inner and middle ones), and one where you keep your fingers straight and push the coin against the heel of the thumb to slide it beneath the fingertips. They both have their issues as well. I'm sure there are lots of ROV steals I'm not aware of.

So, have any of the folks here with huge hands like mine developed any best practices? Are there steals which are stealthier for us? Or should it not matter - just another matter of tons of practice?

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Ken

Keep practicing and experimenting in front of a mirror. This is not an easy transfer. Since you have huge hands, practice with a silver dollar, 38mm coin. The best written descriptions of this move can be found in Kaufman's Coinmagic and The Vernon Chronicles Volume I.

If you work with cards, those big hands will come in handy to cover certain moves like Ken Krenzel's Mechanical Reverse and the Pass. Be thankful.

Try my variation retention pass from any of my dvds or the Encyclopedia of Coin Sleights. The coin ends up resting on the tip of the second finger. Should work fine with large hands. Here is something I posted in the retention pass section before. Any of the three would work for you, but the variation pass is the second one.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=7z85ZHZTkck

I also have pretty big hands, with long fingers. I thought about how much better coin magic looks when performed by people with smaller hands quite a bit, like a woman doing coin magic, that would look amazing. I've only seen about one or two women do good coin magic in my entire life, and they didn't even do anything really technical.
Anyway, I don't think the size of the hand actually has anything to do with how easy it is to conceal the fingers' movement. Aside from Mickey Silver's retention pass, I don't think I've ever seen a pass that didn't involve some sort of finger movement, it's just that when done correctly, the movement flies by.

Vinny's Crimp Based ROV/POV method that I call "Marini's Slide Away" has NO finger movement at all.

That doesn't mean it will solve your problem, but might. It is an a post by Vinny several weeks ago
and will be in a Book to be released soon. I may be able to help you on Skype when that happens.

There is also a Sleight called Silver Glide with no finger movement and the Passing Hand palm is fully exposed. Limited angles, though.

But, daniel116's comment is relevant as finger movement is not as important as other framing factors such as showing the passing hand empty before the reveal.

Thanks Guys! Michael, thanks so much for that link. Those are awesome. That's on vol. 2 of Ency of Coin Sleights, right?

Ken - I'll go looking for Vinny's post on the Slide Away. And I many hit you up on Skype as well. Did you get my contact request? It would have shown from "Ken Theriot."

Thanks again!

Ken

Http://youtu.be/Wg7SKD3xT5I

He called it the Crimp Drop Vanish but we want to get away from the focus on 'vanish" to a utility sleight
and it is not a "Drop" to confuse with the Schneider Method

This will be described in his new book as "Glide" to include the companion moves to show the Passing Hand empty

For me, the effectiveness of any Fake Transfer is getting the audience to "know" where the coin is rather than just "believing" where it is.

The "flash" and lack of finger movements are important to "inference" but minor compared with effect flow in which "never happened" at all.

Thus, any ROV method may not be the best Sleight for a particular effect. What do you want the spectator to remember or forget?

If, for example, you want a coin placed in a spectator's hand to later vanish or change, you will want them to say, "He placed the coin in Beth's hand,"
and not, "He placed the coin in his left hand and then into Beth's."

.......................

and yes, home every evening

I too have huge hands and I have had a lot of luck with a version of the ROV vanish that I learned from Kainoa Harbottle on his Bachelor coin routine video. It took some mirror work, but I'm happy with how it looks.

Ken, the Variation pass is on volume 2. ROPS technique is on volume 3.

Thanks Michael!

Mindpirate - I have that video of Kainoa's. He doesn't really teach the Retention Pass. In fact he actually says "You can look up the Retention Pass" anywhere. Did you just slow down or repeat the video to see what his hands do? Also, he seems to mainly prefer David Roth's Fingertip Retention Pass. Is that the one you mean?

Cheers!

Ken

I'm an artist, (painter,inker,penciller,letterer) as well as a musician and magician, and I personally strongly believe that "hand size" has nothing whatsoever to do with making these arts significantly harder or easier.

I've seen physically large violin players who were great, and little tiny women who were fantastic on a double bass- and the difficulty of mastering a classical instrument is a much greater challenge than a considerable routine of cartwheel dodgery.

With coin magic, you aren't stuck with one sized coin, either, like you are with traditional instruments. There are quarters, halves, dollars. Most people would be more comfortable with 3/4 dollar sized coins anyways.

There is certainly some truth in the idea that some people have more "grace" than other people- but this is less about being able to "do" something, (like a pass with a coin), and more about how beautiful it is accomplished, rather than how effective it vanishes.

But, this natural aesthetic, again, has nothing to do with hand size itself- it is more about one's artistic expression.

I've heard discussion of people having trouble with bony fingers and dry hands too.

For the most part, (and this is just my two cents), 99% of these issues can be easily overcome with simple practice. This isn't something limited to magicians. I've had guitar students who swear they can't play chords because their fingers bend the wrong way, are too dry, not dry enough, cramp easily, are too soft, too hard- I've heard it all.

To the last man, woman, boy and girl, the only thing they have lacked is practice.

The ones that find joy in the act of practicing itself- the ones that "get lost" in the art of getting better and enjoy the music that creeps out of them carry on and improve.

The ones that think the idea of playing a guitar is great, but who refuse to put in the practice time because it's boring, work, or they have other things they like better, are the ones that give it up, often using the above hands excuses.

We all have different sized hands, coins come in many sizes and flavors. Find the love of practicing and desire to learn, and you will succeed.

Dry hands are a very real problem!

For coins maybe, but he was referencing playing guitar. As a professional guitarist myself I can confirm that all of the factors he listed are definitely NOT going to affect your guitar playing, as as he rightly said, they just need more practise.

Regarding the original post, I also have what you would call "large hands" but I personally don't see it as an obstacle at all. I actually like the fact that I can easily conceal a dollar in a number of palms because I find large coins much more "visual" when I perform effects for people. Sure, on the flip side I'm pretty much useless with coins that are smaller than a half dollar and even at quarter-size many concealments start to look unnatural and awkward as I struggle to wrap my big clumsy orc hands around such a delicate little coin ha! I dunno, I think practise is the key more than just feeling that your hands are "too big." I can honestly say that with practise I've never found a slight, concealment or effect I haven't been able to do.

Pretty much have to agree with this, especially as to the RV. It should work the same way with large hands as it does with small hands or medium hands or whatever. Now "coin size" might present itself as a problem, but hand size (especially to do an RV) shouldn't much, if at all.

The true secret is that you very mechanically do something that actually works in the spec's own mind via their actual view of it, or something like that.