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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Any Thoughts On How To Present This As A Mentalism Effect? (22 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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insight
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Let's stay on topic, please. The question for this thread is how to be able to present a card trick as mentalism. I am simply offering my opinion on the topic---this is what the Café is all about, sharing our perspectives to help advance this art form that we all love.

Regards,
Mike

Quote:
On Mar 31, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
I hate to go off-topic, but I'm getting tired of insight telling us all what is and isn't appropriate in mentalism. It's really starting to seem like trolling.

Nonetheless, I'll give a final response: My card memory plainly establishes how I developed the skill at mental imagery that allows me to send and receive thoughts. It is a memory demonstration and has NEVER been viewed as a card trick by reviewers, producers, directors or audiences. And it gets a standing ovation nearly every time.

So, insight, I suggest that I have a much better idea of what belongs and doesn't belong in my own act than you do.

Regards,

Bob

BTW- Your comment that mentalism has nothing to do with playing, and therefore 'playing' cards have no place in the art is something I never thought of before. Probably because it's ridiculous- kind of like saying that mentalists shouldn't bend house keys, car keys or dinnerware because mentalism has nothing to do with houses, cars or dinner.
insight
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My opinion that a card trick cannot be presented as mentalism incited you? If so, I am sorry.

Regards,
Mike

Quote:
On Apr 1, 2015, Sean Giles wrote:
He should change the spelling from Insight to Incite. It a much better fit Smile
mastermindreader
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Quote:
On Apr 1, 2015, Lord Of The Horses wrote:


Stick around as long as you like but don't bring Dr.Crow with you because, as "insight" would explain you, all crows are black therefore all what is black has to be a crow...

Plus, you should know well that crows are neither a playing game nor Mentalism!


Smile Smile


Doctor Crow comes wherever and whenever he feels like showing up and I really have no control over him. But I know he disagrees with most pompous assertions and thought-free platitudes that begin with, "You should always," or "You should never," such as, "Mentalists should never use cards," or just about any of pronouncements about what is and isn't "appropriate" for mentalism.

It's like saying all crows are black. As the great psychologist William James once wrote:

Quote:
"To upset the conclusion that all crows are black, there is no need to seek demonstration that no crows are black; it is sufficient to produce one white crow; a single one is sufficient."


According to Dr. Crow, who claims to have been friends with him, James original statement concluded with, "But most white crows are stupid and none of them taste any good, so the only crows that matter are black." (I suspect that Crow made that up, but I'm not going to argue with him- I know better than to argue with someone who's a lot older and wiser than me, and he probably didn't mean what I thought he meant anyway.)

As to crows not being a "playing game"- they are. In fact the game of "Rook" is a card game thus proving that not only can a crow be a game, but that cards are as appropriate to mentalism as is anything Dr. Crow feels like talking about.

Image
bbarefoot
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I read this the other day, and thought about it for a while, and I think this has some potential. The biggest suggestion, is make sure you have a clear idea of who you are as a performer and what your abilities are. Once you know these two items, it will be much easier to come up with your reason for doing the deck change, or perhaps, as much as you like it, maybe there isn't a reason and you just have to let it go. As a couple examples, if you use a psychological approach, the change blindness mentioned above (great idea btw) could be perfect. IF you use a mind control approach, you could explain that you "made" them see red when really it was blue or vice versa.

For a source of inspiration, Luke Jermay has an effect where he shows a spectator a card, then the audience as a whole the card and and then lays it facedown on a table. Then he asks the spectator what card they were just shown. The spectator can no longer remember the card or remembers the wrong card, while the audience remembers the correct card as you flip it over to show everyone. You could expand on this ploy to create the effect you are going for, or, you could work out a way to chain the two effects together so that it builds from a one on one effect to a whole audience inclusion.


All the best,

Brad
IAIN
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Ben highway and Kenton have a very good psychologically driven colour changing deck..
I've asked to be banned
oweosc12
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Quote:
On Apr 1, 2015, bbarefoot wrote:
I read this the other day, and thought about it for a while, and I think this has some potential. The biggest suggestion, is make sure you have a clear idea of who you are as a performer and what your abilities are. Once you know these two items, it will be much easier to come up with your reason for doing the deck change, or perhaps, as much as you like it, maybe there isn't a reason and you just have to let it go. As a couple examples, if you use a psychological approach, the change blindness mentioned above (great idea btw) could be perfect. IF you use a mind control approach, you could explain that you "made" them see red when really it was blue or vice versa.

For a source of inspiration, Luke Jermay has an effect where he shows a spectator a card, then the audience as a whole the card and and then lays it facedown on a table. Then he asks the spectator what card they were just shown. The spectator can no longer remember the card or remembers the wrong card, while the audience remembers the correct card as you flip it over to show everyone. You could expand on this ploy to create the effect you are going for, or, you could work out a way to chain the two effects together so that it builds from a one on one effect to a whole audience inclusion.


All the best,

Brad


Thanks Magic Café and especially bbarefoot. This really helps!
CThomas
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Quote:
On Mar 31, 2015, insight wrote:
I suggest keeping playing cards out of your mentalism routine. They are called playing for a reason, and mentalism has nothing to do with playing and everything to do with portraying phenomena as real.

Regards,
Mike


Oh, good. I was worried for a moment that we'd get through an entire discussion thread without you interjecting this opinion. I should have know you wouldn't let us down.
Waters.
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Quote:
On Mar 31, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
I'd suggest that "tutorial" sites purporting to teach Criss Angel and David Blaine "mentalism" are the worst places to learn anything at all about mentalism.


Agreed.
Waters.
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Quote:
On Apr 1, 2015, Mike Ince wrote:
Without giving away any methods, here's something I worked on last year. Try putting a block of red-backed cards in the middle of a blue-backed deck. Maybe have six blue cards on top followed by seven red-backed cards. Deal the cards face-up one at a time, calling attention to the faces, as you say, "look at the face of every card as I deal and see if one stands out from the rest...". Don't deal through the whole deck unless you can keep their attention. When you reach the red-backed portion, your audience should be so focused on the changing values of the face-up pile that they'll miss the changed backs on the red-backed block of cards. It isn't magic but it's definitely mental. It's a real demonstration of something called "change blindness". Do a web search on change blindness for ideas. I think Tom Stone published an unfinished card plot like this in Genii and I ran with it.

Go a step further. The red-backed block of cards can have instructions clearly printed on the backs, not too dark, one word per card. They might read: "thanks... for... choosing... the... nine... of... spades". Stop dealing soon after the red block has been dealt past and say, "... just say stop anytime" in a hurried manner, as if you'd been clear from the beginning they were to call "stop". Just make sure they stop you on the nine of spades or whatever the subliminal prediction/command says, and afterward you can deal through the deck again and call attention to the red block and the subliminal message.

If you'd like to know my favorite way to make that effect happen (a demonstration of "change blindness" and subliminal persuasion) in a fair manner that allows the participant to stop you at any face-up card while you deal, you'll need to learn to cull the right information and to study mentalism classics until you've earned Five Stars on your final exam.


I was thinking about your work on this!
cheesewrestler
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Please.

It's no problem at all.

"With the sheer power of my mind I will cause you to perceive this red backed deck as a blue backed deck!"

..............

Follow up with the Mindreading Goose and you can start your own religion.
Leeman
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Did anyone already mention change blindness?
dusty
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I'm inclined to suggest that this is a classic problem of having a purchased new trick we really think is cool and then trying to shoe horn it into a routine or programme because we like it whether it is appropriate or not.

The issue is not whether the effect is good or not. All (OK not quite all) tricks are good in the right place.

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit
Experience is not using it in a fruit salad.
Regards,

Dusty

aka Max Gordon.
"Always give 100%, Unless you're a blood donor!"

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magicfish
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Quote:
On Mar 31, 2015, insight wrote:
I suggest keeping playing cards out of your mentalism routine. They are called playing for a reason, and mentalism has nothing to do with playing and everything to do with portraying phenomena as real.

Regards,
Mike

Tell that to Barrie Richardson. Or Bob Cassidy. Or Max Maven. Or Kreskin. Or David Berglas. Or Chan Canasta. Or Richard Osterlind. Or Ted Anemmann. Or Joseph Dunninger. Or...
mastermindreader
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Magicfish-

I'm afraid the gentleman you are responding to is no longer among us.
magicfish
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I see.
Robb
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It seems though that taking an effect and trying to force it into a mentalism routine is a little bit putting the cart before the horse. Starting with the method in mind isn't always a bad idea, it's lead me to many good routines, but in this case it seems it might bit a little too contrived?
neoinwonderland
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Quote:
On Apr 1, 2015, Lord Of The Horses wrote:
all crows are black therefore all what is black has to be a crow...



I just couldn't resist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLUVaJt9JYk
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