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selectedmagic New user 63 Posts |
After reading all the reviews/opinion on here and watch review youtube videos. I think there is a big gap in the understanding of magic technical terms. 2 terms that people argue the most is probably "gimmick/gimmickless" and "impromptu" (maybe because they are the most use words in ad copy these days)
wikipedia defines.. gimmick - "a secret part or object used to make the trick work" Impromptu - "a trick that can be performed at a moment's notice, usually with everyday objects and little or no preparation" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_magic_(illusion) what is your thoughts or how do you define these two terms? |
rmecsw New user new york 49 Posts |
Very helpful
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Slackerking Special user 613 Posts |
Not really. A trick can be gimmickless but not impromptu. A trick can be impromptu but have a gimmick involved. The issue is not everyone will agree. I'm going to use Nicholas Lawrence release Something out of Ordinary as an example because I've been using it a lot and because his release Reduction is the basis for this thread. Monte Matches is a fantastic match Transpo effect where you need to make up a gimmick to perform the effect. Once done, you can carry around the gimmick and the trick is impromptu. However the first review I saw of this slammed him because the reviewer felt it wasn't impromptu. There's probably no right answer here. One could argue that almost anything physical required to perform a trick is a gimmick, or not. It's all perception.
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selectedmagic New user 63 Posts |
Quote:
On May 13, 2015, Slackerking wrote: You are correct, this thread did came from Reduction discuss which go me thinking/ questioning people's magic knowledge. I total agree with you that a effect could be "gimmickless but not impromptu. A trick can be impromptu but have a gimmick involved. " The other point I want to mention is that Mark from Saturn Magic did mention that Reduction uses a "gimmick" while the ad copy claim it is gimmickless. It got me thinking about it how people define the term "gimmick" I got both Decoy and Reduction. Decoy needs the gimmick to activate the effect. Reduction needs a special item for the set up, but don't need anything to activate the effect. How would you define gimmick in the particular case? |
Saturn UK Inner circle 2654 Posts |
In open forum we obviously have to be careful what we say so as not to expose a method.
In the case of Reduction the ad copy claims no gimmick required. Reduction works with normal cards but you have to do something to those cards with another item to make this work. The item I used is an item we sell in the shop. The item is not strictly a gimmick but something a lot of magicians have an use, but many will not have this and will have to go out and buy it. An example (not used in this trick) would be roughing spray is that a gimmick? In another recent release the gimmick is a black pull string bag nothing else, its hardly a gimmick you can buy these almost anywhere if you look around, another gimmick some time ago was a length of plastic tube you can buy in most pet shops for a few pounds at most. When advertising a product many producers put includes DVD and gimmick but the gimmick supplied is just an everyday item like the bag. This adds some mystery making us wonder what it could be, is it something special they've come up with. In reality it pushes the price up as we could source the item cheaper, but the supplier is in a no win situation as if they don't supply the item they get complaints that people can't find or obtain the item. I think in magical terms a gimmick is any item used to accomplish a magical effect, it could be butter, salt or whatever but as magicians we like to think that a gimmick is a prop that has been constructed specially. This is where we often feel let down when there is no special gimmick supplied just an everyday object. To sum up in the case of Reduction the fact you just don't use normal cards and something else is required I would say that something else could be described as a gimmick. Had they supplied the item (which they could have done easily and cheaply) they would have advertised with gimmick included, so I've just answered my own question the item is a gimmick!
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nukraze New user NJ 68 Posts |
I agree with the definitions provided by selectedmagic, but I'm not sure how much I agree with the following:
Quote:
On May 13, 2015, Slackerking wrote: Yes, there are definitely tricks that are gimmickless but not impromptu, but where I am hesitant is around a trick can be impromptu but have a gimmick. I think this situation would be extremely rare. Based on the definition given for impromptu the gimmick would have to be an everyday object that required "little to no preparation". If the gimmick is something simple and readily available like a paperclip, then I can accept that. But if it requires preparation, then it effectively wouldn't be impromptu. All of this is obviously just my opinion, so I understand if others don't agree. -Tom |
MeetMagicMike Inner circle Gainesville Fl 3504 Posts |
Impromptu is not well defined in respect to magic yet. I can think of at least three different types of impromptu magic.
1) Impromptu in the truest sense - Magic done only with found objects and with no previous planning or rehearsal. An example would be a magician making up a trick on the spot using small pebbles. He would be using skills which he has rehearsed but the trick itself has not been planned or rehearsed and it uses found objects. 2) Impromptu in the practical sense - Magic done only with found objects but having been previously planned and rehearsed. An example would be doing matrix with bottle caps and coasters at a bar. It would appear unplanned but in fact it has been planned and rehearsed. 3) Impromptu in the apparent sense - Magic with seems to be done with found objects although in fact the performer may use hidden gimmicks and has planned and rehearsed the effect. An example would be the ghost matchbox. It seems that the performer simply picked up a matchbox and caused it to animate but in fact the magician brought the matchbox with him and had previously gimmicked it and rehearsed the effect. |
Danny Kazam Inner circle 1516 Posts |
Quote:
On May 14, 2015, Saturn UK wrote: I would look at the product as something that makes the gimmick. Spray for cards is not a gimmick, but a tool to make a gimmick. To me, the gimmick is the thing that helps makes the trick work,not the thing that made the gimmick. Isn't that like calling flour bread? lol
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J-Mac Inner circle Ridley Park, PA 5338 Posts |
Here's an interesting post by Stephen Minsch in the Hermetic Press's forum:
Quote:
Gaff vs. gimmick is a very interesting question. Because most writing in magic is done by people eager to share ideas, who are often not skilled writers, definitions and usage of magic jargon are often loose. Even careful writers can slip, through bad habits, when using these words. I'm guilty of this as well. The best distinctions I'm aware of were formulated by T. A. Waters in his excellent Encyclopedia of Magic and Magicians. I added the Bold emphasis to his definition of "gimmick". Jim |
selectedmagic New user 63 Posts |
He defined a gimmick as a secret device never seen by the audience, which contributes to a magical effect; e.g., a reel.
Contributes to a magical effect... Could I interpret as in, an item/ a device required to directly activate the magical moment? I say directly meaning it must be present to make the magical moment happen. For example, if I need to do some arts and craft to build something, I would not considering the material or tool needed as gimmick(s). I would only consider the end product from the art and craft the gimmick. Any thoughts? Quote:
On May 17, 2015, J-Mac wrote: |
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