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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
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On Sep 13, 2015, ddyment wrote: I believe this is totally correct. I also wonder why this wasn't sold through the pea to pea members - it's the right to sell it to any market you want but certain markets will not agree with certain requirements and thus the requirements should be up front. For example - I missed the drawing thoughts small print "not for resale" and although other colleagues have ignored it - I will honour it and never buy again from anyone who puts such a restriction down as unless they can guarantee to me the x amount of people will never leak it - which they can't - it makes no sense to ask. Sell it to trusted friends and colleagues. As soon as anyone around here opens up sales to all - without screening (as money is not a barrier as doug pointed out) - well, what really is the purpose of selling this? Sell it to any with the cash - I don't think the seller is really taking time to honour the art to the point they have any right to expect anything from the buyer. Although not a member of the pea - I do not understand why this product was not released within for people they have screened and known with relationships..... the reason to go open market without screening seems odd with the expectations put forth. Imhotep
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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brehaut Inner circle kentucky 2531 Posts |
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On Sep 13, 2015, Mindpro wrote: It Is hard to respond to all this on my tiny phone. I guess you did not respond to my main point ---the Café has a section on reselling books. If this is wrong , should you not campaign to get it removed ? Should the Café not allow certain books to be resold ? Instead of addressing this you somewhat accusatory ask me why would I want to resell it so quickly ? I'm not sure Ithat is relevant or whether it would be appreciated. Let me ask you ---have you ever sold a book on the Café ? Ever bought a used one ? And if so , how is that different other than in this case there is a blurb about performance rights ? At the end of the day, I feel like the author wants his cake and to eat it too (I don't blame him---I would want that too). He wants the profit of sales to a couple hundred of people but wants the control he exerted before he sold the book. I don't blame him for wanting that. But please don't attack the ethics of members of the Café that take advantage of the Cafés section permitting the sale of used books. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
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On Sep 13, 2015, brehaut wrote: I specifically pointed out I wasn't attacking your but rather just seriously interested in wondering why you decided to purchase this? Were you unfamiliar with it? Then I guess just as curious as to why you decided to sell it? Sure, I have sold things used her on the Café, that wasn't my issue or interest which is what you seem to be focusing on. I do think you are incorrect that used sales somehow benefits or is acceptable to the creator though. For mass release, perhaps I could see it more - perhaps. As stated in the first page of the book each manual has been watermarked and coded to the original purchaser's name. It also mentions keeping this to yourself (the original purchaser). Again to me it's a matter of respect and acceptance to the creator's concerns and wishes. It was also clearly explained what the effect was in a very generous preview and answering of questions in advance by Bill Brunelle. It was also clearly stated that this was for stage use and right from Ted K's own performing act. This is a release from a top industry pro, not just those that continuously crank out release after release. With all of this stated IN ADVANCE, with so many knowing exactly what this is, I have just trying to understand your perspective. I'm sorry you are taking this personally as that was not what I intended as I (as the creator of entertainment business products, training and resources) really am trying to understand your perceptions and mentalities. That's all nothing more. I would be upset and feel taken advantage of if someone bought something of mine and immediately relisted it for sale used. To me it screams of "I want the secrets and goods, then my money back", whether this is the intent or not. I also do not think he was releasing it "to profit on 200 people" as you suggest. It is his life's work. If he decides to put it out there in any capacity, especially limited, I'm sure he wants it clearly defined what it is and how it's intended so magicians don't think of diminishing it with coins, silks, and their mental bunny. I clearly get this on all levels, I see some here don't. To them it just seems "a book." |
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ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2499 Posts |
As with many things, it depends on the context, so can be seen (even by the same person) in different ways. From an ethical perspective, it could be many things (though these are difficult to quantify, or even qualify, as there are no universally agreed-upon definitions).
But from a legal perspective, it's clear: it is simply "a book". Which means that the form is offered limited protection, but the information is public domain.
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
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Lseeyou Inner circle 1271 Posts |
It would be awesome to re write the rules on the magiccafe...
We should have 2 kind of Topics // Example: Ted K - Target Number Manual * Reviews Ted K - Target Number Manual * Related Discussion So we won't waste time coming here, life is easier with order. Does anyone got theirs yet? |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Seems to me that if you don't want it resold, you only sell to people who agree to it, and are morally ok with it...and then you sell it only to those people...as each seem to be coded to the individual, if they THEN resell it anyway, then you never sell to them again (if you become away of it)...
otherwise, if don't vet people, then you have to accept that it will be lent to friends, photocopied, scanned and re-sold...maybe more than once... legally, unless you've made people sign a contract with you - then there's nothing you can do about it... for me, the info has been really shared on a public forum, and I don't think it was mentioned in the blurb that he requests its not resold - so, that's that... i would have thought a simple way round it, is to offer (in print, in the booklet) that you will buy it back from them at a certain percentile of the original price... i personally, am very thankful that the 2nd hand market exists, otherwise I wouldnt not have been able to buy so many lovely old books...
I've asked to be banned
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takeachance Inner circle 3764 Posts |
I get what Mindpro is saying, and agree 99% with his take on selling and the ethics of it. Can't do much about the legal side. Myself, the line in the sand is, if I am, could, maybe, one day, possibly use the material, then I must own the original release. If I watch or read something, then sell it, I can never use that material in any way shape or form. Needless to say I don't sell anything, and just had to extend my house to accommodate that. If you buy Ted's book and intend to use any of the material in it's original form or any variant of it in any way "what's so ever" you must own the book and have it in your possession. That's just my line in the sand and I make no judgement on others. I haven't seen anything unethical by any member here selling their copy and believe their decision was made because they found they would not use the material. Anyway, that's just my 2 cents worth, it's a good discussion to have.
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ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2499 Posts |
Lseeyou opined:
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It would be awesome to re write the rules on the magiccafe... No need to rewrite the rules: there is already a place for reviews of mentalism products. It's in "The Good, the Bag, and the Garbage" area, until the title "Mentally Speaking". This area is not intended for product reviews.
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
I agree. It was originally posted here as a "heads up" and then everyone started just tacking along on it, rather than starting the reviews and concern in the right forum. Personally I wouldn't have posted it here at all but downstairs for thd initial announcement.
I_SeeYou - yes many of us have recieved it and that is what started much of this discussion in the first place. Take A Chance, I agree it is a good discussion to have, but remind me never to release my personal life's performance work to this community. It shouldn't matter whether it's a "legal" issue or an "ethics" issue, it's about what is right and honoring the wished of the creator. If you are seeking a loophole in his wishes to act accordingly to your own wishes, that is the disrespect of which I and others here are speaking. |
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takeachance Inner circle 3764 Posts |
So once again I need clarification on your response. Are you saying I look for loopholes Mindpro to justify myself?
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Lseeyou Inner circle 1271 Posts |
Thanks ddyment and mindpro for the clarification.
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
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On Sep 13, 2015, takeachance wrote: No, only that one sentence was directed at you. The "you" was meaning anyone, not you specifically. |
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takeachance Inner circle 3764 Posts |
OK, in that case I'm in agreement with you.
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Atlas Inner circle 3103 1277 Posts |
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On Sep 12, 2015, Mindpro wrote: Oh, no - I have most definitely noticed that and am in full agreement with you there. Best, Atlas |
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BMWGuy Inner circle Texas 2563 Posts |
Hey guys,
I feel I should revive this thread, since there havent been any posts on the actual material. I have had time to read the entire manual twice, and this weekend I even had a chance to perform something from the manual.....my review is below: Ted K. Target Number Manual It has 47 pages, but don't let that deter you from buying it, within its pages is pure gold. Now, I had learned the original method by hearing Conversations with Mind Readers long ago, but as soon as I learned about the book, I knew that it would be filled with extra bits of information. So here is the scoop: Introduction Basic Presentation Preparation and Presentation (this required a gimmick that should not cost you a lot) Afterthoughts and furtherthoughts Now we get into the variations, which is where I believe this book shines: Target Number Cash Box It is similar to the original presentation, but you add a layer of impossibility with a cash box, that you never go near or touch for that matter, and at the end everything seems more impossible. Target Key - R-Rect Think Kurotsoke with a lock and keys, but cleaner. Target Time Predict a thought of time. Target Invisible Deck The name is a given. The P.S. Principle This is a great principle that I plan to use in the near future. You can predict in advance the outcome of a sports event, or presidential election, etc, etc. Powerful and easy at the same time. Target Card My favorite from the whole manual and it was exclusive to only a few, until this release. This to me was worth the price of the book, bar none You project a card to a member of your audience, and you predict everything. I was booked for a convention in Guadalajara Mexico this past weekend with Eric Jones and Bizzaro, and performed Target Card, to an overwhelming response. This is one of the most powerful routines you can do, gimmick free, easy to do, and allows you to focus on your presentation. The book also contains a bonus effect at the end if you want to amaze and astound a client that has booked you and leave him/her with a memento. All in all, this is a worthy investment, and not sure how many are left from the printing, but I am sure glad I have my copy. Thanks Alex Alejandro
PRESET by Alex Alejandro & Dan Harlan now available for a special introductory price!
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Townsend1 Regular user 106 Posts |
Alex,
Outstanding review!!! Thank you! |
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