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Johdan New user 8 Posts 
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The inner circle member 'pegasus' says in a different thread about an effect that I recently bought: "The fact that it is basically a card trick makes it complete and utter poop."
Link to the topic: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=218 Are semi-self working card tricks really "complete and utter poop" ? I feel cards bring a lot of variety to magic. And there are some really great solutions especially for beginners. On the other hand, 'pegasus' seems to be a respected member in this community. How could he come up with such a statement? Thanks for helping me understand! Dan PS: The trick he comments on, has worked well for me so far. |
Ben Blau Inner circle 1475 Posts
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Out of curiosity, I followed the link you posted. From what I can gather, it seemed to me that they were saying that an iPhone pin unlock effect is "poop" if it's really a card trick. I don't own the effect in question, but if you have to do a card trick in order to divine a pin code, I'm inclined to agree with the criticism. Card tricks are fine, but if the promotional video for the pin code divination doesn't make it clear that a card trick is part of it, I'd be pretty disappointed as a customer.
I love self-working and semi-automatic card effects, by the way. But not to obtain a pin code.
Ben Blau
http://www.benblaumentalism.com |
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RiderBacks Loyal user 251 Posts
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I have no idea what's going on, and nor do I really care. But I suspect that the pin code "divination" requires something like the spectator using their pin code as part of a card trick you perform. If so, then it would be "poop." I don't see hate for card tricks. I see hate for an effect which relies, allegedly oddly, on a card trick (when, perhaps, it shouldn't.) I'm fairly confident in stating that you are confusing criticism of a particular effect with criticism of card tricks in general. The only people around here who think all card tricks are poop are some of the hardcore gambling cheats who don't want to make an honest living and frequent the gambling section.
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Johdan New user 8 Posts
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Thanks Ben Blau and RiderBacks! Now I understand better.
So, it does not seem to be a criticism of self-working card tricks in general but rather the kind of routine where it is used and the way it is presented in the promotional video. I fully agree that misleading promotional videos are annoying. Interesting, I saw the cards in that video and others probably didn't, so in this case it is probably borderline. That leaves me with the following question to RiderBacks' answer: We all know there are huge discussions about mentalism and cards. Regarding pin code divination: Is it generally better from a spectator's view point to write down the pin code onto a sheet of paper, which ends up in a center tear? Or if the participant enters his pin code into a smart phone during the routine? Would those two methods in general appear better than a method using cards? |
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Ben Blau Inner circle 1475 Posts
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Simply ask yourself, "If I could really divine a pin code, what would it look like?" That should be the deciding factor.
Ben Blau
http://www.benblaumentalism.com |
MeetMagicMike Inner circle Gainesville Fl 3504 Posts
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Advice can be helpful but don't let it limit you. If you like the effect then give it a try.
One man's trash is another man's treasure. |
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Mychine New user 59 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 4, 2015, Johdan wrote: When performers pull out cards to solve non-card problems the audience antennae go straight up and know that fishy business has arrived. Whenever possible, try to use methods that are adaptable and fitting to the original problem; this keeps the core theme of your effect intact. |
ALEXANDRE Inner circle 3024 Posts
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With an effect like this (the one linked) I think it's very important how you introduce the cards. It can absolutely be done effectively, but I don't own the effect so I can't really comment further.
I use playing cards in my Psychic Entertainment work regularly, including my work with the metaphysical community, and I don't have any issues. It's all about framing and how you choose to introduce the cards ... but this is a lengthy subject. I'd like to also mention that I really admire and appreciate how Ben Blau works with cards. His Ben Blau Project video is highly recommended.
HERE'S A SECRET ...
http://www.lybrary.com/mystic-alexandre-m-354.html |
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pegasus Eternal Order United Kingdom 10537 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 3, 2015, Johdan wrote: Hi. Yes my remark was based solely on the fact that a card trick was required to identify the specs pin code. |
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Ben Blau Inner circle 1475 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 4, 2016, ALEXANDRE wrote: Thanks, buddy! My book will be out this year, and will have a TON of material in it. At least 300 pages, hardcover. I'm working hard on it, and it's almost all card mentalism.  
Ben Blau
http://www.benblaumentalism.com |
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NotThatLarson Regular user 113 Posts
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Max Maven once said "90% of everything is crap."
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1879 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 30, 2016, NotThatLarson wrote: He would say that. It is true that there are many poorly constructed, procedural-heavy, or just plain boring effects out there. That doesn't mean that they're crap though. IMHO, the hallmark of a great magician is the ability to transform what might generally be viewed as a "rubbish" effect, into something interesting or astounding. |
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Count Lustig Elite user 456 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 30, 2016, NotThatLarson wrote: I trust that he attributed the quote to Theodore Sturgeon. |
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LoganPorterMagic Regular user 137 Posts
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Pegasus doesn't have much good to say. lol
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IMAGINACIAN Special user In Your Thots 558 Posts
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Quote:
On Dec 20, 2015, MeetMagicMike wrote: Very valid advise and fully agree with it. I have a question though. 52! (factorial) is the total number of combos a deck can be stacked. Am I right if I say that the total number of card tricks (past, present and future) will eventually be 52! If so, does Max's '90% crap' statement apply to those 52! number of card tricks.
There is no better freedom than choice and no better choice than freedom.
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Claudio Inner circle Europe 1948 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 18, 2016, IMAGINACIAN wrote: 52! card tricks, you must be joking 
I believe there is no relation between the number of combinations of a 52 card deck and the number of card effects. If you take a subset of the cards, the 4 aces, there are hundred of them! and the order of the 48 other cards has usually no bearing on the effect. In any case, I doubt the number of card tricks will ever be 52!, but it's in theory possible to have more than 52! and all of them, minus a very few exceptions, would be utter crap. |
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IMAGINACIAN Special user In Your Thots 558 Posts
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Claudio,
I meant 52! card tricks as a hypothetical premise, with obviously no research to back it up. And it remains unverifiable at this point of time. Fully agree with you that there is no relation between number of card tricks and number of deck combos
There is no better freedom than choice and no better choice than freedom.
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Claudio Inner circle Europe 1948 Posts
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Imaginacian, I knew you were not seriously stating a relationship between the number of permuations in a deck and the number of card tricks. But a universe where so many card tricks would exist would surely be nightmarish!
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » All in the cards » » Why are card tricks regarded as "complete and utter poop"? (2 Likes) | |
Posted: Dec 3, 2015 07:58 pm 
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