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BeThePlunk Special user West of Boston, East of Eden 887 Posts |
Yesterday performed Luke Jermay's "Remote Viewing," a trick I've elaborated into an impossible presentation, for some acquaintances who know I do magic. I waited to be asked to do a trick. The cards were in another room, apparently not ready for a trick. One of the group riffle shuffled. Another member of the group cut. I nailed it, naming the cards from another room. And what do I get? "Oh, you memorized the order." I don't want to get defensive (especially because they're right), but I want fire back with, "But I didn't know you'd ask. Glenn shuffled. Sue cut. How could I memorize the order?"
This also happened on "Professor's Nightmare:"......"Oh, anybody can pull stretchy rope." It seems so stupid to say in frustration, "But you examined the rope yourself." Any tips on handling this kind of guessing -- the kind that's frustrating because it should be nullified by the presentation? Maybe just ignore it because the rest of the audience will discredit the guessing themselves? Maybe build more agreement into the presentation... "Nobody can know the order of the cards, right?" "Just normal rope, right?" Thoughts from those more experienced? |
Jon Strum Regular user 125 Posts |
Audience management has to rely somewhat on your performance persona. There are things I would say that you wouldn't, and vice versa. So it may be a challenge to advise how you would apply the right fix here.
What I would do, rather than build in more agreement, is make the spectators responsible for creating an impossible situation for me. "Sue, please shuffle the deck. <pause and with eye contact> And I want you to keep shuffling until you are absolutely sure that there's no way I could possibly know the order of those cards..." or "Joe, I want you to crawl inside of this rope, have a look around, and make sure there aren't any trap doors, wires, or mirrors. Because when we're through, you might swear that there are...". Make them responsible for knowing that all is above board. When I'm using a convincer, I like to say, "When you speak about this later - and you will - I want you to remember that...(you could have changed your mind, you were the one who shuffled the cards, etc.)"
"Do you like card tricks?" he asked.
I said no. He did five. |
Father Photius Grammar Host El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo) 17161 Posts |
Sounds like a case of you are trying to amaze or fool rather than entertain. People do not like being amazed or fooled, as such they become skeptical. If you entertain, then they enjoy the moment and don't question methodology.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
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BalloonThief New user California 63 Posts |
Honestly it's very difficult, at least for me, to preemptively eliminate methods that audience thinks we use for tricks until they shout them out after a performance. Once you hear someone say "You just looked at it in the mirror" or "Those are special cards" or "George is saying whatever you want him to..." you have to go back over your presentation and build in cues and convincers that cancel out the assumed method. After you have performed a routine for a while you'll find that you've cancelled out the most obvious methods and that you won't get that type of response that often.
Also, you will find that some people throw out absurd explanations for magic as a knee-jerk reaction to good magic. They are trying rationalize the impossible or improbable with their own world view. Shaking your head with confidence, even if they nailed the actual method, can occasionally be enough to throw those spectators off. There is a nice essay about this in The Books of Wonder Vol. 1 by Tommy Wonder. |
BeThePlunk Special user West of Boston, East of Eden 887 Posts |
Thank you for those responses. Each has offered something different and valuable for me to work on. Really appreciate your thoughts. David
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tvmikek New user 50 Posts |
I think it's most difficult to perform for family or other people who know you well. They don't necessarily see you as an entertainer, even thought you might be a really skilled entertainer. Since there's more comfort, they might feel they can challenge how it was done. The toughest audiences I have had are family and friends.
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Your opening words may not accurately express what you do live, but I will work with them. (not wanting to be overly critical)
"know I do magic." followed by "waiting to be asked ot do a trick." no performing magician "does magic." The provide entertaining demonstations that might create, in the mind of a spectaor, "must be magic." part of that is "knowing you are a magician" rathe the "believing you are a magcian." Then you say that you do tricks. Tricks are never magical. More importantly, if you think you ars just doing tricks then .. the point is that how you perceive yourself and what you are doing can influence the audience. Call it presense, confidence, charsisma, whatever. That fact that you ge thses kind of reactions from you audience might indicate an old maxim: "the magic in the mind of an observer can never be stronger than that in the mind of the performer." Many people today are influenced by the ease of "discovering secrets" on the Internet. They are too aware of the wrong things -- tricks for a couple of bucks. So, I would suggest working on "Who you are" when performing more than "What trick to do." As noted above, this may be very difficult with freinds and relatives. If they expect magic to occur, it will -- and such comments will go away. Check out "Furst Principles."
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Friend Plunk!
Ken's post, immediately above, is, almost word for word, what I would have written! I'll add just a few thoughts which may help stress Ken's words. "Magic" happens ONLY in the mind(s) of the spectator(s). The PERFORMER is always more important than the "PROP(S).
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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BeThePlunk Special user West of Boston, East of Eden 887 Posts |
I am truly appreciative. As I consider your words I can see that you're striking at some core issues that need my attention. Thank you.
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Bill Thompson Elite user Mississippi 422 Posts |
Listen to Dick Oslund, heck, look up all his posts every day. He has a lot to teach and you can learn a lot just by reading the things the posts.
Now, lets get to helping you with your problem. People who know you well, or have known you all your life are the hardest people to perform for. To most lay people magic /is/ just tricks and that fact makes them very defensive when a trick /does/ fool them. It makes them feel stupid and silly that they fell for it and were unable to detect a "simple" feat of sleight of hand or trickery. Compound this with the fact that plain ol' you did it, not David Blaine or Criss Angel (or David Copperfield or Brett Daniel, Etc.), it was just you... YOU! So they have to save face now with wild explinations. When I first started performing, I, with my sleeves rolled up mind you, vanished a hankerchief, and performed a coin transformation for some coworkers and was accused of using my sleeves, even after showing them my bare arms. When something like this happens, we must examine why. It wasn't until years later that I figured out what had happened. It was a matter of routining. If you vanish something, it /has/ to go somewhere, It /must!/... If that question isn't answered by the routine, then spectator is left to answer the question himself! Not only must your routine include convincers, but it must make sense to them what you are doing and why. There must be a reason for doing whatever it is you are doing... Why are you vanishing a hanky? Is it just to show them that you can? Or is there a logical reason for it to vanish as part of a routine? Just vanishing a hanky isn't entertaining! Neither is just turning a Centavo into a quarter. To entertain you must structure an act with a reason for the magic to happen that brings joy (or as Dick says "makes 'em laugh") to the spectator(s). There is a big difference between "doing tricks" and being entertaining. So, performing for those who know you so well (as just /you/ not as a magician), will be harder than performing for an audience who are expecting you to be a magician. Meaning, you have to work doubly hard to entertain them and not just do tricks and present puzzles to them. This happens when you learn to properly present your magic to them, structuring it into an act with unity and a theme. One book that can help you achieve this is Strong Magic by Darwin Ortiz. Mr. Ortiz suggests in his book that even if you are an amateur and doing an "impromptu show" that you must structure even this into an act with an opening, a middle, and closer. An act you can perform well, whenever you are asked to do some magic. Remember that being entertained doesn't mean being made to feel silly and stupid. You, as a magician, have to find ways of presentation that avoid that road and instead makes them feel a part of the magic, and gives them a story to tell afterwards.
"To let understanding stop at what cannot be understood is a high attainment.
Those who cannot do it will be destroyed on the lathe of heaven." - Chuang Tse |
Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Thanks, Bill, for your very kind words!
Your mention of vanishing a silk (with sleeves rolled up) and the subsequent reactions, reminded me of THURSTON'S "IASIA". IASIA was the vanish of a girl who had been placed in a cabinet which was then hauled up to the dome of the theater. She definitely went into the "box"! (No "sneak out"!) In the '20s, it had been said that: "Houdini DOES his tricks, Keating TALKS about his tricks. Thurston SHOOTS at them!!! (I wasn't THERE! *honest"!) Firing a blank pistol, was a theatrical device that emphasized the effect! Thurston had a blank pistol, and he used it! (He once almost blinded George Boston (an assistant)when the wadding from the gun hit George in the eyes. With the cabinet in the dome of the theater, Thurston did the gun bit! The curtains which had concealed the interior of the cabinet, fell down. The cabinet was obviously a bare framework. Iasia (the girl), was GONE! Spectators in the gallery could look down at the top of the cabinet, Those in the balcony could look into the side of he cabinet. Those in the orchestra could look at the bottom of the cabinet. She was GONE! IASIA was the CLOSING ILLUSION of the show. It was the first night of the opening week of the season. When Thurston fired the gun and the curtains dropped, there WAS NO APPLAUSE! The audience, with mouths agape, stared at the cabinet. The proscenium curtain dropped. The audience left. CONSTERNATION! Thurston's wife, who always sat out front, with a "yellow pad" and pencil, came backstage. All the assistants were on stage. NO APPLAUSE as the show finished! EGAD!!! Much discussion! Someone noted that the audience was absolutely amazed. The people were struck dumb! There needed to be something that would break the tension. At the next show, when Thurston fired the gun, and the curtain dropped, Thurston, looking up at the empty cabinet, and announced: "Iasia is GONE! I don't know where she goes! --But, she always comes back on payday!" The audience laughed, and broke into big applause! When I first did doves, I had an Abbott TEAR APART VANISH which I used to "disappear" the doves. (Yes, I know that "disappear" is an intransitive verb!--hee hee) When I tore apart the box, and, the doves were not there, I announced: "Punch & Judy are gone! I don't know where they went. But, they always come back at supper time!" I got the laugh, and applause. So Bill! you vanished the silk (TT?). Think about Iasia! You need to either reproduce the silk, as part of the routine, or, use a clever, funny line which will relieve the "tension". In my book, I write up the (TT) silk routine. First, I produced the silk, then vanished it, and, then, reproduced the silk. The whole routine lasted barely a minute. I opened the school show with it from the mid '70s, until about the early '80s. IT ALWAYS GOT LAUGHS AND APPLAUSE (for Kindergarten through Senior High School students). When I do the 20th Century Silk, I use the "ELUSIVE SILK VANISH" (TT with scrap of silk "decoy". a Burling Hull concept). There are some comedy bits with a little boy, then the silk is gone. Because of the comedy, there is a big laugh, and applause. The silk is reproduced, and there is a BIG LAUGH, AND, BIG APPLAUSE! The 20C Silk is NEXT TO CLOSING in my elementary school show. I wrote it up in the book. I've responded to Bill's post, but, I hope that Plunk was listening! To Plunk, and anyone else listening: There's a lot more to a magic show, whether if's a formal standup program in a parlor, or on a platform or stage, OR, just a casual closeup bit, than just doing TRICKS. An old timer, S.H. SHARPE, said it very well: "THOSE WHO THINK THAT MAGIC CONSISTS OF DOING TRICKS, ARE STRANGERS TO MAGIC. TRICKS ARE ONLY THE CRUDE RESIDUE FROM WHICH THE LIFEBLOOD OF MAGIC HAS BEEN DRAINED." Thanks for listening!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Quentin Inner circle 1020 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 7, 2015, Dick Oslund wrote: S.H. Sharpe published some wonderful books on the theory of magic including Neo Magic, (a sequel to Our Magic by Maskelyne and Devant). The irony is that S.H. couldn't do a trick to save his life. |
BeThePlunk Special user West of Boston, East of Eden 887 Posts |
Believe me, Reverend Oslund, I'm paying strict attention.
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Oh good! (When can I take up the collection? (hee hee)
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Hi Bill (mister, that is!)
I didn't mean to ignore YOUR comments! I wrote that in a bit of a hurry, cuz the Iasia thing came to mind. BTW, I got that story from George Boston. I met him at the IBM Convention in 1950. He had written up the Iasia story in his book, "Inside Magic". Your post was excellent. It's evident that you did some serious thinking before you wrote it. I particularly liked your comments regarding "doing tricks or being entertaining". Best wishes! Dick
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Bill Thompson Elite user Mississippi 422 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 7, 2015, Dick Oslund wrote: I loved that story and it emphasised a very good point... Breaking the tension. Quote:
Your post was excellent. It's evident that you did some serious thinking before you wrote it. I particularly liked your comments regarding "doing tricks or being entertaining". Thank you for the praise. It means a lot to me to hear that from you.
"To let understanding stop at what cannot be understood is a high attainment.
Those who cannot do it will be destroyed on the lathe of heaven." - Chuang Tse |
Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Yer more than welcome!
Just remember...if ya ever vanish a dove, duck, or rabbit, they don't come back until suppertime!! (Neither thee or me will ever do Iasia!!!!!!!!)
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Hi Quentin!
I've never read "Neo Magic". --I had to "fight my way" through "Our Magic"!!! --Although I'm glad that I did! I had never heard THAT about Mr. Sharpe! I HAVE met a few fellows who could discuss principles and theories "per longum at latum", but couldn't DO a French Drop! hee hee PS I "wondered" about the "kilt". Pat had never worn a green one! --At least, I never saw him in one!!! Dick O'slund!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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