I´d like to know if anyone knows if Tom Burgoon is selling, in any magic store , his trick (idea) of the Timmy Toilet Paper. I ve seen done many performers and I don't know if the idea was stolen by this performers or if the trick is being sold in any Magic Store. Thank you .Mak

I use generic toilet paper. I is cheaper then the brand names. I buy my toilet paper at Wal-Mart.

The Timmy Toilet Paper Routine is in the February edition of Genii and as Tom says, it has been stolen off him by many performers

Can someone describe this routine?

It is indescribable. Anyone other than Tom doing it will probably "go down the toilet"

Oh Crap, and I wanted to do it on the street!

I thought of an answer for those you run into that think "stealing" another person's material is OK, because... lots of people have stolen it.

You say, "Lots of people have robbed banks, does that means it is OK for you to do it?"

He actuall explains how to do in in this months Genii

late.
B)

He may have explained it, but it is STILL HIS SIGNATURE PIECE, so why would anyone else want to do it?

Pete:

You are absolutely right on.

Probably for the same reason that many people in Vegas are using the signature line that I originated in 1982.

They figure that they can get away with it.

The routine is published with 15 line drawings, a complete script and a detailed explanation in Genii February 2004. Richard Kaufman writes "he [Burgoon] has been extremely generous in sharing it with you." On the other hand "Timmy" answers the question "So why are you and Tom explaining your act here in Genii?" by "We decided that at least we should get credit for our ideas. It certainly doesn't mean that we want anyone else doing our act. How about a little professional courtesy!"

If a routine is published and you bought it, I can't see why you would be lacking in professional courtesy if you use the routine, or parts of it, in performance.

...And what line is that? I'm in Vegas. Maybe I can use it too.

:bigsmile:

I think Burgoon is being specific as to what is his and what he hopes ethical people will not steal.

To me it is very obvious that Timmy, the roll of toilet paper with eyes and a gaping mouth, is Tom's signature piece and that he wants to keep it that way. This is very clear from the article and the photographs. Good! However, I'm surprised to see that Timmy is included in the published routine.

The detailed description of the routine contains both novel items and old standbys. I believe I can tell one from the other, but that's only because I've been studying magic for 30 years. Let's assume that you're a beginner and that you want to use some parts of this routine - after all, you bought it. How do you know what parts to stay away from? How do you know if there are more original bits that you're not supposed to use?

In my opinion, you shouldn't publish and sell a routine and then complain about people lacking professional courtesy if they perform it.You can't have the cake and eat it too.

Hey, what is your signature line anyways?

Thanks,

Sure, because it is in print, you "can" if you want to use the routine. But why would you want to? It really is HIS signature piece.

You do it somewhere, he follows, then the customer/audience will think he STOLE IT FROM YOU.

That is not fair... but that is what happens.

I had a bit that someone nicked, did and then when I showed up they accused me of stealing it, when it was mine in the first place.

I remember going to a comedy club one night when a magician friend of mine was on... I didn't tell him I was going to be there.

His act was almost over and my wife said to me, "I've counted 10 of your lines he's done so far."

We just got up and left.

When I read that article in Genii, and saw the images of scared little Timmy Toilet Paper, I must admit, I wanted so badly to try that routine out!

But especially after reading lines like, "We decided that at least we should get credit for our ideas. It certainly doesn't mean that we want anyone else doing our act. How about a little professional courtesy!", it made me realize that it wasn't mine to use, and that Mr. Burgoon deserves to maintain the originality of the routine and the credit for it.

TOm knew that certain people had stolen the bit anyway. I think he just wanted to make sure hat people gave him credit, since people were going to do it anyway. I live very close to a comedy club at which Tom preforms almost every week. I have seen him preform TImmy TOliet Paper several times. I don't care who you are, no one will ever duplicate that preformance of Tom's and make it look anywhere close to have as good. Tom's personallity just adds something to that peice that no one else could

Kyle

If it is published in Genii, then it is okay to do as described.

Don Alan went to his grave complaining that people was doing his signature pieces. Chop Cup and Invisible Deck. He sold the rights to the deck and the Chop Cup was Al Wheatley's. So it goes. Put it out there and you have no right to complain.

You have legal rights, but if you choose as so many do to not copyright or patent your material then again you have no right to complain. So, being cheap has it penialities.

Doesn't he sell it on his web site?

If so then it's open for everyone
I do not copy other peoples working material BUT if they sell it
then it's fair game.
Just make it your own- change it (if possible) to your own style.

Dave Welzman
Australia