Hi Magic Friends,

My friend came up with a new design for fire cage himself in 2011. The variation allows the assistant to push off the top part when appearing, then all four sides of the cage collapse, showing that there's no trap doors or compartment to the illusion. I have seen this variation of fire cage performed live, and the audience reaction is great.

I have never seen anyone else done it this way, so I was wondering if he's the first person that came up with this design, and if so, is it possible for him to get a copyright/published for it?

The picture is as following:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B89a8m4......=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B89a8m4......=sharing


Thanks,
Will

See a patent attorney but in the mean time....
If an item has already been in use for one year then you can't patent it in the US

The US is one of a good 20 governing authorities around the world that you need to be accepted into and need to pay numerous fees on varying schedules.

And just the third in a series of hurdles is "Your patent is only as good as your enforcement".

In the magic world, unless you plan to make over a million dollars on something, it's probably not worth patenting.

But don't listen to me, I only have one patent and have helped 6 others through the process by making prototypes and doing comprehensive patent searches. I think your friend should pursue his dream no matter the cost.

Jay,

Thank you for the reply, I don't think getting his product patented is his dream. But I think if his idea has some originality in it, it should be recognized by the magic community.

You obviously are really experienced with patenting, in term of the cost for getting a patent, how much are we talking? 1k, 10k, 100k, millions?

Thanks,
Will

Willconjuror,

I don't think that the guy in your pictures was the first one with the lifting top at the fire cage (and dropping side walls)
YouTube: sittah illusions - wk act stockholm
That performance was in 2006 !!
Years before Stockholm that variation was developed in collaboration with Sittah.

Willconjuror,

I have found that this variation was developed in 2004, for the show of Sittah, performing as an act in the "Novomundo" -show ( in Studio 21) in Hilversum (Netherlands).

John,

Thank you for finding that out, I'll let him know. Also, I found Sittah's version, I think the effect is very similar but the mechanism is a bit different, Sittah's version has four vertical sticks on each corner of the bottom plate whereas his doesn't. It's probably not enough to say it's a new variation but enough to prove that he did come up with this on his own, right? So, would he have to get permission from Sittah if he wants to perform this effect then?

Thanks,
Will

Will,

The honorable way is to ask permission from the illusionist who created the "exploding" fire cage (in fact based on the illusion The Lion's Bride/La Fayette). It's the even normal in the business that professionals pay a fee when using an idea of someone else.
Copperfield even paid for ripping apart a sheet during a transformation to Jonathan Pendragon.

Greetz,
John

Hi John,

I respect the code of ethics, I will let him know, he will probably contact Sittah to work out something.I personally think there's difference between his and Sittah's design.

But thank you so much for the help.

Will

I was told (a long time ago) by the president of the magic dealers assn, that builders "rights" were basically a handshake and gentlemens agreement whereby: you don't mske my things and I don't make yours.

That was the unwritten law all the way up to the mid 70s (actually started brewing in 65 at a MDA meeting) then a few dealers decided to go their own way and it expanded over time.


Today you have some overseas makers who have no respect or laws to constrain their practices.
But then again you usually get what you pay for.
I'm amazed that people constantly complain about rip off quality but continue to buy from those sources anyway.
(Probably because most magicisns feel that if they know how something works then it's value is diminished).

I'll get off my soap box now.

Soooo giving honor to the copycat?

I completely agree, it is unfortunate that a lot of the illusion designer's hard work don't get recognized and appreciated, this happens in close up magic community as well. My personal opinion is that it has a lot to do with the people being unaware of the value of intellectual property. Me and my partner are actually working on a project, it's an Illusion show that raises awareness of that, it will be hosted in a theater at a University. We have gotten permission/purchase the performance right from each of the Illusion that we decide to perform, we will tell the history of these Illusion development and credit the author of the Illusion to the audience, thus making the show educational.