Tom,

It really depends on the wording, many clauses are written with a hold harmless or indemnification that shifts the burden onto another party regardless of cause. Lawsuits tend to target deeper pockets, those pockets also will be pushing risk onto the less sophisticated. So if lawsuit does happen, we inadvertently become involved if we nonchalantly agree to it. And we may have to cover the companies legal costs and other matters per our contract.

Example,
So we signed a blanket indemnification clause and an attendee sues venue for what ever reason. Venue will a)bring us as party to the suit or b) will take us to court to enforce the contract and recover damages.

Again they have deeper pockets to weather these situations, so we have to spend our time defending in court against a contract we signed agreeing to hold them harmless.
It's dangerous for us because we didn't read the boilerplate or cared/assumed what it was.

Every word of a contract is important. It sets the depth and breadth of the relationship. Always have your contract reviewed by a competent legal professional if you don't understand what you are agreeing to because once you've signed...

I'm not Danny or tom, but I would say no he is not. Because apart from these clauses they usually slip in a survivarability clause - meaning it's never ending so 2 years later someone comes back to them they will push it to you.

So ask yourself," is the juice worth the squeeze?"

Because your own lawyer said he won't defend you if you disagree.

I am not an attorney. If he says don't sign then don't. His job is to protect you. He is doing what you pay him for.

I agree, you should listen to your lawyer. It would certainly make his work much harder to defend you if you sign.


But it does make me wonder why you don’t trust your own insurance company.

Tom

Oh I trust them 100%! They have been great to me, and gone out of their way to work with me. Last year, a very high end companies Risk Management team got involved and my insurance agent had many long discussions with me and with the risk management team. He had to create a custom insurance plan that would satisfy them. He did all of this quickly, and explained to me every single cost.

My understanding is, a hold harmless can go way beyond the scope of commercial liability insurance.

Just as an update to all of this...

Before signing ANY hold harmless agreement, check with your insurance company. Your entire policy may be void if you sign a hold harmless. Even if it's not void, your insurance policy may not cover everything that could be included in a hold harmless. Your insurance agent will tell you more about your specific policy, but I decided to ask him some questions about hold harmless agreements and they can be quite a bit of an issue.

A very good point.

If you work with government agencies, it can be really interesting when it comes to liability. I used to work an event done by the local police department. After three years of doing the event without them asking for proof of insurance, I received a contract the fourth year with an overly broad hold harmless agreement. I called the city's law department (that had created the contract) and asked if naming them additional insured on my policy would suffice. The lawyer said no. I then asked if the hold harmless could be modified to not obligate me to be responsible for things I had no control over. The lawyer said she would check with her supervisor. I didn't hear back for more than a week so I, reluctantly, signed the contract and mailed it in. Three days before the event (which was two months after I sent in the contract), I called my contact for the event to touch bases with her and she said she was told I had refused to sign the contract so she didn't know I was doing the event. She said she would check into it and get back to me. A little while later, she called back and said I would have to sign a new contract and my payment would be delayed 30 days because it would have to go through the approval process again. I agreed to it and she said she would fax the contract. Five minutes later, she called back and said they found my signed contract. It had been stamped cancelled and put in the file cabinet rather than processed. So, apparently, if you question the law department where I live, they cancel your contract! I did the event and got paid and I was never called back by them again.

Michael... thanks so much for sharing this experience. So far I've had good luck working with cities. They seem to be used to planning events, and are happy with a certificate of insurance. However, exactly what you described is what I've been running into with corporations who pass my contract along to their "legal team" or "risk management department."

Perhaps MindPro (or others) can shed light on these 2 questions -

1. What is the best way to handle insurance issues from the beginning so neither the artist, or the client, is surprised by any insurance issues. Example, in Michael's case, he wasn't aware of the hold harmless until he received the contract from the legal team, AFTER the event planner had confirmed him, and agreed upon a price.

and related question -

2. Who is typically responsible for extra insurance fees? Example: - I have commercial liability to cover me. If I add someone on as additional insured, it can cost me money (depending on who the additional insured is, example: landowner, booking agent, etc.). It costs extra to have an article of subrogation. And if my insurance will approve the wording, it ALSO costs extra to sign a hold harmless and still be covered by my insurance. These three items can add up to quite a bit of money. When I give a client a quote, I'm quoting a performance fee. But then if they say I need to provide x, y, and z, all of that costs me money for their event. Obviously I'm responsible for my own insurance, I need to carry insurance for my business, and I will gladly provide proof of that at no charge.

Would this be appropriate? -

When I send a quote for a performance, via e-mail. Include in the quote my standard insurance including limits, sub-limits, etc. And as part of the quote say "Any additional insurance related costs will be the responsibility of the Client" (worded better than that... but that's the general idea.)

ThomasR,

Most magicians that I know have a simple insurance policy (some through the magic groups) that will cover the performer,
and will usually get them through the door to do the show. UNTIL, the legal team gets involved, then they are going to
want ‘event’ insurance rather than the performer just having a ‘performers’ insurance policy to cover the performer.

Most places that have events regularly will most likely have some type event insurance but if they see a questionable act,
something with fire, danger, or something they know nothing about thinking their own insurance will question it, they
pass it on to the legal experts.

I have purchased single event policies to cover a single event, it doesn’t always come cheap. But I’m sure you can shop
around for better prices. Also I’m sure those touring events get a discount. About four or five years ago I promoted a magic
show for a local magic group and the theater for the first time asked for an event policy. I purchased one on line printed
it out and all went well. Do a search for event insurance to get some more insight about the topic.

If it were me, and I run into this often, my contract (and emails) would explain my insurance coverage and recommend an ‘event’ coverage
company for those wanting more coverage. (much like you said and worded better.)I would also include some contact information on where to purchase it.

Or you could simply add the cost to your fee if they wanted you to handle it.



You could also be so bold to include a waiver for them to sign if your coverage wasn’t acceptable. (Not Really)

Just some thoughts,

Tom

How often is this happening to you?

Tom,

Thanks for your thoughts. I used to purchase event insurance for each event I booked when I was just getting started... and then I switched to a yearly policy. So I am aware of event insurance.
Like you said.. that can cost some big money depending on what type of coverage the client wants me to have. I have no problem arranging it, but those costs are not in the price quote that I send.

And yes, this is for events that involve circus and acrobatics. So higher risk than "just a magician." But like you said, any magician that uses fire, or performs with anything remotely dangerous (broken glass, etc.) or escape artists will probably run into this as well.

From 2007 - 2015 there were never any issues. "We need proof of insurance" I would provide proof. Done. Everyone happy.
(Once I was asked to sign a hold harmless relating specifically to a basketball court. That was well before a contract and I declined. I don't really count that one.)

From Late 2015 until now it's happened twice.

Is it really that much? Once every three months or so? Has it disrupted your business that much?

It’s my understanding that everyone got nervous after the nightclub fires. Remember those?

Business is a lot like life, it ain’t perfect.
You do the best with what you have and you move on.

Tom

"Is it really that much?" - Yes it's happened twice in the past 6 months. But that's the only time I've ever had any issues.

I wouldn't say it has disrupted my business, but it's something I would like to keep from happening in the future.

I'm hoping to hear how others handle this. Is insurance mentioned in the contract? In the initial proposal? Never mentioned and you just hope for the best?

If that is the way you think your business is going why not just buy a policy year round that allows you to extend coverage to the facility?

I've considered that, and I do plan on checking on options, as my renewal comes up soon.

But no matter how much insurance I have, I want to be clear with the client what I am providing, and that anything additional will cost extra, and is not included in my quote.