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McCritical Regular user 156 Posts |
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On 2002-07-28 07:46, Darmoe wrote: My question is: Why do a lot of magicians do "head shots" and "glamor poses" anyway? You're selling an act, not a face. |
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xersekis Special user 591 Posts |
I just wanted to add that while I made my points earlier It may have read harsher than was intended. I mean no disrespect to anyone regarding their position or understanding of the topic.
Enjoy! Rex |
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Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
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On 2002-08-20 15:12, McCritical wrote: Ahh... I'll Take "Industry Standards" for $200.00 Alex
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
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mysterium New user Baltimore, MD 100 Posts |
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My question is: Why do a lot of magicians do "head shots" and "glamor poses" anyway? You're selling an act, not a face. Simply because it's one of those things you need to do to be successful. Why are disparaging of head shots? If you're in the entertainment field, you need a decent head shot. An entertainer without a head shot is like a baseball player without a bat. It's that essential. Not that you need a typical magician head shot, or a cheesy pose, especially if you're a mentalist. But try getting a newspaper article or a booking with an agent without one. They're essential. If you want to be successful, find a professional photographer and pay the price. It's worth it.
Mysterium
http://www.themysterium.org |
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Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
Many in the Christian world will tell you that "they are the only ones that really can recieve legit messages from the spirit" and all others are duped by the Devil (and I'll be dang if that attitude don't keep Philemon and I on our toes, taking care of the master's work, decieving everyone )
Anyhow... Kou... your opinion of Mr. Edwards and the idea that he's taking advantage of his patrons, is just that. The majority of those having this kind of experience walk away feeling that some sense of closure has taken place and are thus, able to move forward with their lives and let go of the person that's passed. I'd say that's a pretty positive end result. It's also the kind of result no clinical, analytical counselor, traditional element of clergy, etc. can give a patron... only a professed adn trusted "Medium" can do this. Like I've said before, people that do this kind of work really do serve a positive purpose in what they do. As long as they are not running a hustle, selling chicken feet and snake oil to remove non-existent curses and as long as they are giving people ways of looking at life, life's circumstances, and the issue itself so as to create a more empowering sense of positive self-healing I don't care if they're real or not, they're doing some powerful humanitarian work the pedigreed counselor cannot accomplish. Until you've sat in The Reader's Chair free of the "magician's mind set" it will be most difficult to understand just how significant and empowering this kind of job can be.
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
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Joshua Quinn Inner circle with an outer triangle 2054 Posts |
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Like I've said before, people that do this kind of work really do serve a positive purpose in what they do. As long as they are not running a hustle, selling chicken feet and snake oil to remove non-existent curses and as long as they are giving people ways of looking at life, life's circumstances, and the issue itself so as to create a more empowering sense of positive self-healing I don't care if they're real or not, they're doing some powerful humanitarian work the pedigreed counselor cannot accomplish. It seems like you're trying to have it both ways here. Why is selling chicken feet to remove nonexistent curses any worse than selling readings to relay nonexistent messages from dead people? Or to look at it the other way, how do you know the curses are any more nonexistent than the communiques with the deceased? Why give credibility to one but not the other? They both have about the same amount of evidence going for them, not to mention the fact that several religions that believe in the power of curses also believe in communication with the dead (Voodoo, Santeria, etc.). Do you dismiss the "believing in curses" part of those religions but not the "communicating with the dead" part? And looking at the end results, both services accomplish the same thing: Person A hands over money to Person B and ends up feeling better, for no better reason than because Person B, who is assumed by Person A to be some sort of authority on such matters, tells Person A what they want to hear. If Person B uses chicken feet and says "Your curse is lifted," then it's a "hustle," but if Person B guesses at some initials and says "Your uncle Joe is fine and he loves you," then it's "powerful humanitarian work"? Sorry, I ain't buyin' it. Quinn
Every problem contains the seeds of its own solution. Unfortunately every problem also contains the seeds of an infinite number of non-solutions, so that first part really isn't super helpful.
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McCritical Regular user 156 Posts |
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On 2002-08-20 16:52, Darmoe wrote: Leave it to me to post an incomplete thought... I worked as a graphic artist for a good number of years. I got my start in college working for an organization that booked acts on campus. Talent agencies would often send us a head or pose shot of the performer which was completely inappropriate for the material that the artist was performing...especially when it came to getting these materials prepped for print. Most of the pictures looked "sterile" and conveyed little about the act. If I were a casting director, looking for a face to play a part--the head shot makes perfect sense. But if I'm looking to promote a show or lecture, I'm more interested in photos that display content or style. (I'm looking for Fin Costello) |
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mysterium New user Baltimore, MD 100 Posts |
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On 2002-08-21 02:54, Quinn wrote: You don't have to "buy it" but there is a big difference. The curse ploy is designed to frighten people and rob them of their money. It is an unethical act perpetrated upon the gullible for no other purpose than to fleece them. Genuine mediumship (as practiced by those who believe in their own legitimacy) is a practice which purports to connect the living with the dead. You may think that's hogwash, but plenty of people don't. The participants pay for what they perceive is a legitimate service. There's no harm done, and often the medium provides consolation and support for the participants. Instead of simply asserting that all of those who go to mediums are being fleeced, why don't you ask one how he/she feels? There is a role for mediums in society, which is why they exist and why people continue to go to them. Regardless of what magicians and debunkers say, people find the services of mediums and psychics to be valuable. Who are you to say they're being ripped off? They apparently don't think so -- but you'll have to ask them yourself, instead of simply lumping them into a convenient "victim" category.
Mysterium
http://www.themysterium.org |
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Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
Thank you Mike! Great explanation...
Quinn, in regards to your post and to augment a bit to what Mike just said... Certain elements form within the esoteric/ metaphysical/New Age miss-mesh world that has been around a few thousand years now, intentionally target certain segments of the populace knowing that these people have cultural/religious based superstitions, fears and beliefs. Believe it or not, ALL clerical/religious/political and business groups do this... the whole of our money oriented society is based on exploitation. However, those in question that proport special gifts, who sell curse removing or love endowing spells, etc. typically use a blunt hustle. If you were to read over Anna Riva's Book of Black & White Magick you'll find many of the classic scams, how to word things into a Reading to sell these magickle cures and more. I've worked in and around the curio/New Age market for most of the past 25 years. The majority of the people in this line of work are honest, simple, humble individuals. Contrary to popular belief, few make much more than $25-35k a year doing Readings, shop owners seeing an average of around $50to $75k a year if they're working a small, honest trade type business. Larger stores like the Psychic Eye chain (a.k.a. Gal*Mart) certainly see much stronger incomes... Robert (the owner) stocks each location with over a million in inventory... but he's a businessman who saw this as his calling... he's also a very experienced and smooth working Mentalist (but that's a secret... dont' tell anyone.) Getting back to my point... there are those in just about every community, that run this "Gypsy Hustle". I've worked with law enforcement agencies in several different communities as an investigator of such flim flam operations... not just psychics either, I've gone into Tent Revivals, Country Churchs and even a few Tv studios to check things out. That's also why I'll speak up in defense of John Edward and Sylvia Brown but not certain others. Unlike most of their critics, I've been there, done that, KNOW THE PEOPLE... that's not bragging, it's simply stating that I have looked into things first hand where most are playing armchair expert, projecting their conclusions based on someone else's opinion... I believe the term that's applicable here is "Contempt, prior to investigation" which, as I understand things, has a tendency to make folks look a bit foolish. Then again, as I've observed in many that share your mindset, the wisdom behind NOT Judging a book by its cover and simply tossing everything that "looks like" this or that into the same pigeon hole... well, it leaves little room for anything... especially an act of faith. In the U.S. the biggest decision most medical people must make when it comes to treating a patient is guessing which plocebo will work best... the $10.00 prescription or the $150.00 one? If going to a Tarot Reader or Spiritualist and speaking with "aunt Maude" helps a person get over a limiting condition... so long as the fee paid is not exhorbinate, I see no con. Most people that do this kind of work charge between $150.00 and $500.00 an hour for a special session of this kind... Many accept installments as well as partial barters. I've been paid everything from cash to Persian Prayer Rugs for doing this kind of work (on a legit level... no tricks!) My shamanic background prevents me from taking cash on healing type work... but then, skeptics tend to forget and ignore the fact that most Readers and Spiritualists come from that particular seed... don't they? Later!
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
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Millard123 Regular user Millard Longman 174 Posts |
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On 2002-08-21 02:54, Quinn wrote: The problem that most of us have with curse removal is that the curse remover is the one that tells the client that they have a curse that needs removing! And then they charge an exorbitant amount to remove it. I gladly remove curses, but I do not suggest to the client that they have one to begin with, and I don't charge extra for the service. BTW, don't most Psychiatrists actually work in this unacceptable way; they suggest you have a disease and then charge an exorbitant amount to cure you? Millard Longman |
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Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
Millard, your ability to see things as they are slays me!
Maybe that's our problem, we need a billion dollar organization and lobby surrounding we peon Readers, a bit of Ivy League college campus endorsement and voila! We'll be legit and can legally/ethically charge hundreds of dollars an hour, cater primarily to the rich vs. middle America and the occassional sucker... hmmm... I think you're onto something... well, I'm certain you've thought of it at least
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
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Millard123 Regular user Millard Longman 174 Posts |
Craig,
Instead of a billion dollar organization, lets just take the billion for ourselves; 50 - 50 split OK? Actually, I like the idea of a special organization for Psychics. When do we start? Millard |
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Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
Right Now!
Whose butt do we need to kiss first?
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
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