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Soumyajit Regular user Under Your Bed 130 Posts |
Hello Conjurers,
As a newbie to the craft of conjuring, I have got my hands on some good learning material thanks to "The Magic Café." I have one question to ask. As a beginner, I have some easy card tricks available to learn and then there are some basic moves (shuffles, cuts etc.) required to perform a lot of the tricks. So my question is: Do I need to absolutely master the moves first before moving on to the tricks or should I practice a bit of both? Which one provides the best results in the long term? I know that the answer to this could be pretty subjective but I am open to ideas. On an added note: if someone can guide me towards a very basic coin tricks learning material I would be extremely grateful. Thanks, Soumyajit
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danaruns Special user The City of Angels 808 Posts |
My feeling is that you need to learn tricks first, and perform them for people. There are some self-working tricks that have pro-level effects and require virtually no "moves." So, I'd learn a few of those first, so that you can perform some magic. Then start working on tricks that require moves. In the course of learning that second group of tricks, you practice the moves. My personal opinion is that practicing moves without purpose often ends in people becoming bored or able to perform tricks but not magic (there's a difference). IMHO, performing effects for other people is what it's all about, and it's much better to be able to do a good performance of a self-working trick than to know all the moves in the world.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
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Sari Atassi New user Syria 50 Posts |
I think it's better to study the effect, master the necessary sleights/moves to that specific effect
Practice the sleights one by one, practice them together, then practice the whole trick until you can do it without thinking about the sleights/moves And I advice you then to practice your presentation for the trick Always remember that sleights/moves alone do not make magic, you need a presentation as well (a simple reasonable story would do) And in my opinion if you try to "master" few tricks at a time, is much better than "knowing" how to do numerous tricks "badly" Oh and I'm sure someone here will guide you as to where to start in coin magic better than I ever will Good luck!
It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled. ~ Mark Twain
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Doug Trouten Elite user Minnesota 471 Posts |
I think you want a combination. Find a trick you like that relies on one technique you'd like to learn, then work on that trick. This way you are learning tricks while you are learning techniques. Some teaching materials are set up this way -- one or two sleights, and then a few tricks that use them.
It's still magic even if you know how it's done.
Terry Pratchett |
Soumyajit Regular user Under Your Bed 130 Posts |
Thanks a lot for your kind and thoughtful comments. Yes it seems a combo would serve the purpose the best. Dana is absolutely right in saying that just practising the moves is pretty boring, I almost feel despondent while practising them. Some tricks add to the charm a lot.
Sari you are right as well, I am trying to master couple of tricks before I get into tougher ones And Doug, yes, I have got some material that are set up in that way so I will be following them to the best of my abilities. The question arose from the fact that in almost all books and DVDs, the teachers always stress that learn this shuffle, learn to do it perfectly first, make sure you can do it blindfolded in a dark room with a hand tied behind the back and the other hand handcuffed to the left leg and then do the trick. But I guess you guys (and gals) agree with what I had always intended to do. Great to have some moral support. Soumyajit
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Doug Trouten Elite user Minnesota 471 Posts |
I think you do need to be very comfortable with the techniques required in a trick before performing that trick, but you don't need to learn 50 sleights before you perform anything. If one sleight is required to achieve the desired effect, get really good at the sleight and then perform. (I know you were joking about being able to do the moves blindfolded in a dark room, but it's actually a pretty good idea, since you'll often want to be making eye contact with your audience while the dirty work is happening.)
It's still magic even if you know how it's done.
Terry Pratchett |
Soumyajit Regular user Under Your Bed 130 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 8, 2016, Doug Trouten wrote: Yes I have made it a point to practice these sleights and shuffles in the dark. If I can retain the intended cards afterwards, I consider to have grasped the idea of it. But most of the times I am looking at the shuffle like a hawk. Takes the charm away I guess
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
[quote]On Aug 7, 2016, danaruns wrote:
My feeling is that you need to learn tricks first, and perform them for people. There are some self-working tricks that have pro-level effects and require virtually no "moves." So, I'd learn a few of those first, so that you can perform some magic. Then start working on tricks that require moves. In the course of learning that second group of tricks, you practice the moves. My personal opinion is that practicing moves without purpose often ends in people becoming bored or able to perform tricks but not magic (there's a difference). IMHO, performing effects for other people is what it's all about, and it's much better to be able to do a good performance of a self-working trick than to know all the moves in the world. [/quo YES, THERE CERTAINLY IS A DIFFERENCE!!!!! A MAGICIAN DOES NOT P E R F O R M E F F E C T S !!!!! A magician does not P E R F O R M M A G I C, either!!! A magician P E R F O R M S T R I C K S. If he/she performs the trick(s) well, with a good PRESENTATION, the MAGIC "happens" in the MIND of the spectator, when the spectator PERCEIVES the E F F E C T!!! If you REALLY want to be a magician, you will never be bored with learning!!! DR. TARBELL began his CENTURY OLD "TARBELL COURSE" by HELPING THE BEGINNER TO LEARN BASIC SLEIGHTS. He followed that with some BASIC TRICKS. (The good Dr. Tarbell understood that, "one cannot really TEACH someone "ANYTHING", because LEARNING IS AN A C T I V E PROCESS!" (Sophocles said it a few thousand years ago: "ONE LEARNS BY DOING THE THING". I've been a performing magician for seventy years. I began making money as a magician on October 24, 1945. I was 13, almost 14. I made $26, with my 40 minute show for the local Junior High School students. (Many grown men were working all week for that much money!) My high school classmates were getting 50-75 cents per hour, bagging groceries, and, I was getting $10 to $!5 for a 30 minute act throughout my high school days. So, for 20 years, I was a part time professional. During my four years in the U.S. Navy, I made enough money working part time, that I was able to send home my Navy pay check, and, live on the the "show money". With the show money, I bought a car, so I could play the dates easier. After the Navy and college, for the next 50 years, I was a full time professional, performing all over the United States. That's 70 years! (Note: I was never "at liberty". Agents and Managers called ME!) I had STUDIED Tarbell. --And, I was fortunate enough to find some well qualified professionals to serve as mentors. When seeking someone to be a mentor, keep in mind that "NEMO DAT QUOD NOT HABET!" (That's LATIN for: "NO ONE CAN GIVE WHAT HE DOES NOT HAVE!" Good luck!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Soumyajit Regular user Under Your Bed 130 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 9, 2016, Dick Oslund wrote: Thanks for the heads up Dick. It is always nice to get some guidance from a veteran like you. Guess this is the magic of a forum such as this
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Thanks Soumyajit!
i hope I spelled your name correctly! (I'm not GETTING old, I AM old! and the eyeballs sometimes give me a problem!) Thanks for your response. I've found that it's necessary for me to present some "credentials". Otherwise, some readers tend to question my comments. When I was a teenager (in the '40s) my mentors stressed the use of correct terminology! They said: "Words have meanings!" The first atomic bomb is said to have been dropped because of the misunderstanding of a single term! "MAKASATSU" ( hope I spelled that right, too!) can mean "refrain from comment" OR "IGNORE". Our "side" is said to have interpreted the term as "ignore".
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Soumyajit Regular user Under Your Bed 130 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 14, 2016, Dick Oslund wrote: Sorry I missed your post Dick. I do not get updates for replies made to my topics, not sure why Yes by roaming around the forum I am aware of your credentials to a large extent:) And you spelled my name perfectly I am practicing both moves and tricks whenever I get some time. Hope to be able to call myself a conjurer in due time. Thanks to everyone again
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Ado Inner circle New York City 1033 Posts |
Quote:
On Aug 14, 2016, Dick Oslund wrote: Ignore is "mushi suru". Makasatu doesn't ring a bell at all... P! |
Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Thanks, Ado! It has been YEARS since I heard that story! (I think it was in a class on COMMUNICATIONS, fifty + years ago!
The prof. was making the point that "words have meaning"! (somewhat like Mark Twain's "lightning and lightning bug"!) The misuse of technical terms, leads to confusion! --The BOY SCOUT HANDBOOK "says" that the square knot is a JOINING KNOT. --The square knot ("reef" knot to our British friends!) AINT a JOINING KNOT! It's a BINDING KNOT! (There is a DIFFERENCE!!!) A SHEET BEND is a JOINING KNOT! (A SQUARE KNOT can "capsize" which makes possible, tricks like the Sympathetic Silks and/or the "Slydini Knots" (cf.: "Scot's "Discovery of Witchcraft", 500 years ago!) Instructions for rope tricks often confuse "bight" and "loop", which leads to confusion! Simple terms like "trick", "effect" or "magic" are constantly misused by many who post comments in the Café.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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