Hello all. I am helping a friend develop a kids show and we have come to the point where we will either use a die box or hip hop magician. I was wondering which goes better for you in your kids shows

From a practical standpoint you will find a Die Box and its many variations a lot easier than you will a Hip Hop Magician (in either size/magnetic or not).

The Chance Wolf Hip Hop Magician is one of those delightfully rare props that magicians collect AND use.
For this reason, especially since it hasn't been made for quite awhile, adding this to his show is pretty much a moot issue.

Julie

Hi K_S_E

Always remember that the #1 "rule" in developing an entertaining show is, K I S M I F !

I don't even know what a hip hop magician IS! (I certainly am not one!)

I realize that with your work schedule, you haven't had time to really read my book. I know that the die box is what is popularly considered a "sucker trick".

From your pairing of the die box and the hip hop, I am assuming that the hip hop would be considered a "sucker trick", also.

I don't KNOW what your plans are, or how you plan to use either of the props, but, I would like to suggest that you read my "essay" on sucker tricks. --It's part of my write up and presentation for the color changing silk (pages 313-319). It may help guide your thinking.

Somewhere in the book, I outlined Jay Marshall's, and my, "recipe" for adding a new trick to one's act. I'll repeat it here...

1. Learn how the trick is DONE!

2. Learn how to DO the trick.

3. Learn how to DO the trick so that it ENTERTAINS THE AUDIENCE! --THAT, obviously, is the HARDEST PART!

It's especially hard, if you are adding "5" new tricks to an "act" that is made up of the "5" new tricks!

In the book, I describe and discuss the "three types of sucker tricks". Each type has a different "purpose".

Keep in mind as you plan an act, that, THE PERFORMER IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE PROP! --or, in more colorful words, "It aint WHAT ya do, it's HOW ya do it!

A good die box can COST $$$. It's possible to do a a very good sucker trick for less than a dollar! (and, you can carry the props in your pocket!)

Please don't misunderstand! I'm not "anti props" (in this case, "tubes, boxes, cans, or pans"). But, if you invest in a hundred dollar box, and, you can't figure out #3, above, you will have $$$ invested in a prop that sits on a shelf. I have used simple props like a piece of rope, or a few paper napkins, or a few silks, and a gimmick to create an ENTERTAINING "sucker" trick, that produces a VERY ENTERTAINING EFFECT. ("TRICK" and "EFFECT" aren't the same thing, eh?!)

While you have the book in your hands, be sure to look at page 258. I list my NINE CRITERIA, and, after #1 (K I S M I F), they are the other NINE "RULES"!

Following those TEN "RULES", can make it possible to develop and produce an act/show that can play ALMOST ANYWHERE, for ALMOST ANYONE!

Thanks for the replys.

Julie, thanks for the input. Even if we get one of the more expensive die boxes it will still be quite a bit cheaper than the hip hop magician.

Mr. Oslund, I actually read your theory on sucker tricks in another thread. I have been thinking of a routine that uses that line of thinking. When the slide of the die bit happens the performer is gonna look really sly like he got away with something. Then when they insist he open both doors all the color will drain from his face because he's been caught, then really surprised it's gone. Then while looking for the die finds it in his hat. Also, I've been trying to reach you via pm. I'm not sure if it's not getting through or I'm not getting your reply.

Hi Chance...

I got your note re: parasol. I had to be out of town for the entire weekend.

I should have some time tomorrow to PM you!

Oh! My essay on "soft suckering" in the book is a bit more detailed!

O

I don't doubt it is Mr. Oslund, I am defiantly intrigued. I can't wait to get home and read it. We've been out for over two months this time and the only thing I regret is not having my books.

For an off the beaten path approach to a Die Box check Mel Babcock's Rainbow Die Box.

Julie

I'd recommend Kovari's Codology, also available from Viking Magic.
It's like the Monkey Bar only with a fish on one of the ropes. At the end the fish jumps to the middle and suddenly there's a fish on each of the ropes.
It takes about 30 seconds to set but it is an in the hands trick requiring no table and takes little space in the prop box.

As I present it, it abides by Dick Oslund's thoughts on sucker tricks.

Hi Quentin!

The late Ken Allen, who first put out the Monkey Bar, fifty years ago, was a good friend. Ken's Monkey Bar met most of my criteria!

When I wa "producing clown" with Wayne FRANZEN'S CIRCUS about 40 years ago, I had "Chester the Jester" do it in the ring, to help sell the "monkey on a stick" that the "gentlemanly salesmen" sold.

Yes! Codology was a colorful, and visual "version".

And, yes, it packs small and light, and, plays big! PLUS, it hasn't been seen as much as the die box. (As you and I KNOW, "It aint the PROP, it's the PRESENTATION.")

Glad to hear that you found my thoughts on sucker tricks "useful"! Karrell Fox and I spent an entire evening discussing "sucker tricks" about 35 years ago, and, my "essay" on such tricks in my book came from that evening.