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Atlas Inner circle 3103 1277 Posts |
I admit that my research is not universal, but it honestly seems to me that there is a shelf life for many performers, and once they reach about 50 or so - unless they are TRULY exceptional (and some are) - their bookings drop off as customers tend to want someone who is better positioned to communicate with today's working set. Indeed, it seems those who are still able to get work are thoroughly capable communicators, and are often excellent listeners, digesting other perspectives and adapting. Further, this seems to contribute to an animousity and bitterness on the part of the older set toward the younger group of workers as this shift in earning potential seems to take many by surprise and sometimes leaves them struggling to make ends meet. They place the blame on the sorry state of mentalism perpetuated by the new generation when, in reality, their inability to be dynamic, often characterized by a know all attitude in their dealings with others, has hurt them.
This is my current hypothesis. It stands to reason that as a performer operates over a long period of time in a region, their relationship marketing potential would grow, putting more and more work their way, and among a group that ages with them and tends to earn more every passing year. Therefore older performers should be well positioned to harvest the fruits of their efforts the older they get. However, this seems to be true only to a point, at which the curve begins to decline for many. As I recognize that my perspective is experential in nature, I welcome other thoughts on the matter. Best, Atlas |
Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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Stunninger Inner circle 2819 Posts |
Agree with your perception, Atlas.
Look at the performers who are over 50 and working regularly, and you see they have a mindset that is very different than those who complain and seem bitter. Richard Osterlind is a prime example of a performer (in his late 60s) who works regularly and commands a high fee. Richard is one of the nicest, most positive and upbeat people one could have the pleasure of meeting or knowing. Richard is clearly a gifted and exceptional performer. He is also an excellent communicator who listens and values the opinions of others. |
Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
At least from the standpoint of character, the older mage or sage type would seem to be a good fit for mentalism.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
If you present yourself with a Gandalf or Merlin persona, then older is better.
The problem is when you have a seasoned performer who presents themselves as trying to be much younger or hipper than they really are.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
Shrubsole Inner circle Kent, England 2455 Posts |
I really think that mentalism is one area where age works to our advantage. Of course it does depends on how you approach your on stage persona, but a very young person telling others what is what and what they think is a hard act to pull off. Conversely if you look like you have been around a bit, then you instantly look like you might know something the audience doesn't and so it's an easier hill to climb.
Winner of the Dumbringer Award for total incompetence. (All years)
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IMAGINACIAN Special user In Your Thots 558 Posts |
Probably my perception is slightly different on this topic. The concept of shelf life may not be applicable to mentalists, as it is. But what does apply is what I call as 'Peak Period'. (I mean a P-E-A-K and not a PEEK, you corrupted minds ) And this applies to all types of performers/entertainers. This Peak Period is when they earn their name and fame. Some peak in their teens, some in their thirties or forties or fifties etc. I've personally seen a couple of them peaking in their seventies. The other part of their performing career they are either working to achieve that peak or enjoying their well earned fame and trying to benefit from it. But whether they are earning well or unable to make ends meet entirely depends on the individual financial discipline and habits - but nothing to do with peak period, imo.
However, this concept of shelf life does seem to apply quite uniformly to 'creators' - whether in magic, mentalism, music, literature etc. After a decade or two (very broadly) of a burst of creativity, most experience a slump (sometimes even without realizing it) and tend to rehash or revisit their existing body of works and trying to depend solely on their 'name' or 'brand'. Sorry if I seem to have digressed, but these felt related to the topic.
There is no better freedom than choice and no better choice than freedom.
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Michael Clifton Loyal user 214 Posts |
If you can't engage and entertain an audience,
if they don't care, it makes no difference how old or young you are. Your effects are immaterial, it is you, the entertainer that will assure your longevity..if you have no knowledge of pacing and theatre techniques, you will die on your proverbial sword,no matter whether you are a hipster or hip replacement artist...and style has no age limits...
Whether you think you can or you can't, you're right!
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thatmichaelguy New user 67 Posts |
Some of it may be due to a lack of willing self-critique or adaptability as well. As the decades march on, the expectations of audiences towards you as a performer specifically and towards seeing a show in general can and do change. You've got to have the insight to know that what worked 20 years ago might not work now. And you've got to have the ability and willingness to change to meet new expectations when the arise.
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Christopher Taylor V.I.P. British Columbia Canada 2314 Posts |
I have no doubt that agism is just as alive and well in the entertainment industry as it is in so many others. My own experience bears that out.
Yours truly, Christopher |
Mark_Chandaue Inner circle Essex UK 4188 Posts |
Ok let me preface this by saying I only work part time as a performer and don't rely on it to put food on the table. That said my experience does not reflect Atlas premise. If anything I am turning down more work than I used to. I think it comes down to market and hunger. I do think that as you get older your desire to chase work decreases. Although to be fair my day job pays a very good salary and so I do have the luxury of not needing to earn anything at all from performing. I work predominantly Masonic ladies nights and so in this market I think my age works in my favour rather than against me. I am far from an exceptional performer in fact I would put myself at best as an average performer but my experience is that year on year I am getting offered more work rather than less.
I put that down to the fact that I personally am enjoying performing mentalist vastly more than I enjoyed performing magic, but then maybe part is down to the fact that I was in my 20's when I built my magic act and it has barely changed over 30 years. Perhaps the popularity of my mentalism act is that it was created by and for a guy in his 50's in the 21'st century whilst my magic act was developed in my 20's during the 80's and whilst I was doing my magic act almost on autopilot I never really stiopped to think whether it still suited a man of my age. So I guess what I am saying is that age isn't necessarily a barrier it is simply that the material and the markets you work need to be age appropriate. Like any industry you need to make sure you are targeting the right market. Bieber would be as hard a sell to the over 60's as Bobby Vee would be to the under 20's. Mark |
David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts |
Interesting thread. I'm 58...and I've been full time since I was 32.
That's 26 years of banquet rooms, hospitality suites, hotel rooms great (and greatly awful) venues, highway miles, garishly colored airplane seats, delightful and not delightful clients and thousands and thousands of eyes watching me from the darkness where the audience sits. In that time I have had periods when I was doing a number of shows a day...and periods where nail biting was all I could manage in that long dead period between shows. I am not convinced it's a matter of shelf life. I think many people who have been doing this stuff for a long time choose to limit how much they do. I think it's more a function of getting older. Personally I don't have as much energy as I used to have and I am not as inclined to travel as much as I used to. I am still passionate about mentalism and I'll do everything I can do to bring an audience to its feet at the end of a performance, but my goals have changed. I don't want to be famous. I have given up on the idea of becoming rich from my performing. Honestly? I just want to work. I have been around long enough to learn that the "plum" shows with lovely paydays and splendid stages still come around once in a while, but that they are the rarity and not the rule of thumb. I've learned that agents need to be wooed and courted...and they still tend to be fickle. While I am still at my desk prospecting for two hours a day, I don't take every job that presents itself. I don't have to. Our house and cars are paid for. We have money in the bank. We have a steady stream of money coming in and after years of chasing down every single possible lead, I am much more relaxed about business. I've decided to enjoy travel now...so when I get a show in an interesting place, I fly in a couple of days before the show and stay a couple of days after its done so Sheree and I can have a look around. (Remember that one first class ticket is about the same cost as two coach tickets...) Since I know that there are a finite number of shows ahead of me (no...I don't know how many) I make a point of making each performance unique. I try not to let them blur together. Does that make sense? I also think you reach a point where you (being the "performer" you) are more interested in giving things back to the community...to helping someone who is serious but new to mentalism out a little...than "you" are in consuming what others have to teach. I don't buy anywhere near as many books or props as I used to because I realized some time ago that I am finally happy with every aspect of my show and that, while the refinement of what I'm doing is ongoing, I really can shrug at the "Latest Greatest Whatever" and ignore it. It's not that I am uninterested, but I've been around long enough to recognize that many of those "Latest Greatest Whatevers" can be found in their original (usually better) form in very old books written by very clever dead guys. I can spend time taking a walk and mentally playing around with a mentalism effect without the burning need to be putting it down on paper and developing it right away. I have more time to spend with the people I like and much less patience for the ones who are -- and probably have always been -- toxic. All of this has only come about since my "incident" in August -- but I really am much happier. Does all of this give me a 'near expiry' shelf life...or just make me experienced? I am not sure. But then THAT doesn't matter a whole bunch to me either. David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
"Growth demands a temporary surrender of security." Gail Sheehy
I've asked to be banned
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Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts |
I agree with David. Enjoy your time on the shelf, however long or short it is, and know there are possibly even greater rewards and joys to be had when they finally knock you off it -or you choose to fall off it.
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IMAGINACIAN Special user In Your Thots 558 Posts |
Hey David,
You are ageing beautifully man. And sharing a part of that beauty with us here. Wow and thanks.
There is no better freedom than choice and no better choice than freedom.
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Robb Inner circle 1291 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 15, 2016, Atlas wrote: Your research? How exactly did you research this topic Atlas? ;-) It's an interesting question. On one hand, my very favorite performers that I've met that are working tend to be OLDER, not younger guys. 50+ I'd say, almost all of them. WAY more 50+ guys than not I'd say. Way more. On the other hand, I see too many "living legends" who have fallen on hard times and struggle just to pay the bills. I feel for them. I don't necessarily think that they grew too old but maybe they ran out of energy for travel and the grind and have chosen to primarily teach but then the pirating thing hit and that has probably taken a big toll on their income. I do hear TOO MUCH of what you mentioned: older, more experienced performers (who more often than not don't REALLY perform too much these days) getting down on the "kids" who they feel don't "get it". It gets a little repetitive and does sound like bitterness. At the same time... they have a point. Mentalism HAS been flooded with magicians trying to be mentalists and failing badly in an artistic sense, even if they experience some commercial success. That is undeniable. Seems like every magician wants to be a mentalist these days but very few seem to understand that mentalism is a very different mode of performance than magic. I'm not going to say that they seem "less real", but they do feel less authentic in terms of being a performer that leads people on a journey into the outer limits of the human mind as a premise, with the entertainment value derived from the hyper-interactive aspect of mentalism. Instead, they appear to be performing tricks to demonstrate their "power" and their subjects are more or less just the setup for the trick. Of course this isn't universally true, but seems to me to be the case quite often, enough that I understand the concern and irritation of some of the "old timers". |
Robb Inner circle 1291 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 18, 2016, IAIN wrote: Nice quote and too true. |
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