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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts 
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I've asked to be banned
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10606 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 22, 2016, IMAGINACIAN wrote: Great perspective, only one problem with everything you mentioned. It is all from the perspective of "I" "Me" or "We" (as us within the community.) This is one of the biggest problems I see is performers that can't distinguish or separate their perception and beliefs from that of the industry professionals, bookers, audiences, the lay public and others. (We see this every summer as well with performers on AGT) While I believe what you say is true, to all of these others, including the industry itself do not see it the same way. Most people (outside the community) would never see a reader as a mentalist. They would likely see a reader as a psychic perhaps. Most agents, promoters and bookers within the industry would never see closeup performer as a stage performer, and so on. I think this is a big reason for the differences here. Too may personal thoughts, beliefs, preferences and perspectives which of course can vary and differ, where it would be better to think collectively from the greater picture for which matters most (at least to working professionals and the industry.) |
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts
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Indeed, I've had many discussions pointing out the term "mentalism" means nothing to some, or combines things like readings, or combines even so-called magic. There is no College of Professional Mentalists that grants licences and has a standards of practice. No, the PEA isn't that either - by its very title, its Psychic Entertainers.... In the end, really, mentalists (and similar) for what I think we are discussing are ENTERTAINERS - and that term actually trumps a great deal of everything else for understanding what it means to be a professional ENTERTAINER. If you are a hobbyist that does not worry about money etc. from doing actual performances, you still might be an entertainer but are you focusing on more the methods, presentations etc. versus honing down on what your character is, your brand, the way you will use terms to connect you to getting chances to perform etc... maybe so,...
Anyway, I don't use the term mentalist for me and I doubt many would from here, although I do a great deal of what is considered mentalism for specific presentations... remember that mentalism roots are more from the Spiritualism movement and not primarily from magic... But I do not tell them I am a medium, spiritualist or channeler either. I never call myself a magician either. Mentalist is not a well understood term in the public - and Blaine, Angel and etc. are not seen as Mentalists. The most prominent mentalist concept in N.A. likely comes from the TV show... so my terms are much more mundane... and include concepts like education, entertainment and experiential. IMHO
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5931 Posts
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Quote:
If you are a hobbyist that does not worry about money etc. from doing actual performances, you still might be an entertainer but are you focusing on more the methods, presentations etc. versus honing down on what your character is, your brand... I don't see how one dictates the other. I know plenty of "hobbiests" whose defined character is far superior to a lot of "pros". Quote: And most people outside the community would see mentalists as psychics. Go up to ten random people in the US out in the real world and ask them "What does a mentalist do?" ... I doubt very many could say. Of those who could, most would use descriptives such as you would for a psychic. Now if you restrict the random people to those stuck in the tiny niche of professional stage performers and the booking/working process there of, then yes, many would know the difference. Some in that community are as blinded by it as they claim others are blinded by their communities.
Most people (outside the community) would never see a reader as a mentalist. They would likely see a reader as a psychic perhaps. Now in England an extremely talented person has had great success at mentalism to the point he has somewhat set the public's definition of it. Such a phenomenon is far, far ahead of the existing US market for mentalism. This person is not only amazing on stage, but he is equally as engaging in intimate settings befitting television specials. So it would come as no surprise that in this far greater developed atmosphere in the UK there is an open interest by the public in witnessing intimate mentalism performances (not on stage) such as they have seen on TV. For whatever reason, in the US, modern day mentalists have not had or perhaps even wanted televised success. They have dropped the ball. Others, less experienced and prepared, have picked up the ball and they are beginning to set the US public's perception of what mentalism is. The train is leaving the station. Get on it or get left behind. (Said to myself as much as to anyone) |
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 22, 2016, Tom Cutts wrote: Hmmm good point. But I'd say they may be more than hobbyists at that point too.... back to the dreaded issue of defining, which I also fall victim too when not paying attention.... is not only is there not a great way to define mentalist.... but what really is a pro versus hobbyist versus something else.... I dunno. I do know Dai Vernon was not considered a professional full time working type - but he eclipsed so many pros in his persona (to your point).... I would say he was more than a hobbyest... hmmm. Its interesting now that you raise this - because not only to people argue about mental magic vs mentalism, // magician vs. mentalism // psychic vs mentalist // reader vs medalist.... but what really is a "pro"? Someone who works full time calling themselves a mentalist may still not be a "pro"..... hmmm. Yeah, you got me thinking.... as I think I was struggling to actually come up with hobbyist factors - and flipped in "persona" but there are a bunch of lousy mentalists who have none - or at least need an upgrade.... cool.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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brehaut Inner circle kentucky 2531 Posts
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When watching sports--have you ever seen a team that looks horrible one week and the very next game looks unbeatable? Happens all the time. That can happen with performances too. One performance you see a guy and say "wow, he isn't that good" and the next one you are taking notes on what he is doing that he is so good. I will say what seperates great teams and athletes from good ones---the ability to perform at a high level every time (that is very hard). I would say the same goes for a mentalist---to be great you need to perform at the high level every time no matter how you feel, how difficult the crowd is, etc.
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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5931 Posts
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Quote: Yup, being a "pro" and professionalism are two different things it seems.
On Oct 23, 2016, Dr Spektor wrote: |
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Posted: Oct 22, 2016 06:30 pm 
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