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Believing New user 85 Posts |
Hello,
I want to try learning the bottom deal. The Card College series are the only books that I have. I have been reading on the forums about all of the different grips and such. Would you recommend that I start learning the bottom deal from Card College? |
Vogler Special user Greece 707 Posts |
Yes, it is a good bottom deal. Unfortunately it is very difficicult to understand and learn a very complex move like bottom deal from one book only, even if this book is the card college, which has very detailed explanations...
I studied all the sources that I had (erdnase, expert card tecnhique, ultimate secrets of card magic, J. England's download), practicing a lot and finally I combined all this to my personal move. This is the final phase. First you have to understand all the individual moves which blend together in a slow single motion...Get Erdnase'S book.. it is very cheap and the most valuable book in card magic, a treasure for sleight of hand practicioners. |
Merc Man Inner circle NUNEATON, Warwickshire 2537 Posts |
The first two questions that you need to ask yourself are:
1. Do I have countless hours of my life spare to be able to deliver this move convincingly? 2. Once (if ever) perfected, then what will I actually use it for? Whilst I can see it's benefits in card cheating, there are a raft of other ways of achieving its outcome in relation to card magic. And if you have Card College Part 5, then my honest opinion is that there are a number of much better items to study than Bottom Dealing.
Barry Allen
Over 14 years have passed - and still missing Abra Magazine arriving every Saturday morning. |
Vogler Special user Greece 707 Posts |
Many of us we love sleight of hand and we learn complex moves for the pleasure of it... Plus I believe that the bottom deal is a very useful move in conjuring. Anyway to study a complex move like this teaches many things about rhythm, misdirection, pauses, imitation of movement, angles, economy of motion.
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SimonCard Special user 601 Posts |
I'm not sure. I haven't seen Mr. Giobbi dealing bottoms, so I would prefer the material from someone that is known to be good bottom dealers, like Jason England and Allan Ackerman.
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MarcoLostSomething Regular user 144 Posts |
@Merc Man: no offense, but your comment is very deceiving.
The purpose of a move is not the whole point of why a move is studied. For example I don't think I'll ever use a palm in a performance, but that never stopped me from studying card palming and doing dedicate practise, as it's not only an important section of card manipulation, but it also enables the card student to get to his own conclusions and observations. Studying is never useless, it's a purpose in its own. That being said, Giobbi is an authority in the magic world, and I think he's got a good understanding of how a bottom deal works. If you seek for a workable bottom deal to complete your magic knowledge, then the Card College is good for you. But, if you're interested in that specific move you have to look for other sources as well. Please note that it's true for all the moves in the Card College series: while they are complete and detailed, if you want to get a closer look at something in specific, you have to track down the original author or further developments (and for that, Giobbi provides a very detailed bibliography for that purpose for anything described in his books). It's not because they're incomplete, but because another point of view sometimes helps to get a better orientation onto something. Jason England 1on1 on the bottom deal is excellent, I recommend it if you're interested in the BD. PS: it's a very difficult move, the true secret of any bottom deal is not the grip, but the practise. A lot of practise. |
Uli Weigel Inner circle Berlin, Germany 1478 Posts |
If you guys don't mind, I'll take the opportunity to point out a certain aspect of Card College, that seems to be overlooked by many readers. It's the paragraph "What Is In These Books?" from the introduction to CC 3:
"This course is much more than a compilation of classic and contemporary card tricks and card techniques. Because I have either mastered the techniques described or, at the very least, have studied them myself for years, I can offer in these books a particiular expertise that is understandably uncommon in authors of works with encyclopedic ambitions such as this. Some may wonder if mere study is enough to permit me to speak with authority on the topics of certain techniques. Let me say that there are techniques, that I have continuously studied, practiced and refined for years, but that I rarely use in my professional performances for the public. False deals, for example, and a perfect Faro Shuffle require almost daily practice to be performed perfectly. Since I do not exercise these particular regimens, I employ such techniques only with strong misdirection (some methods for incorporating this strategem are included after those techniques are taught) or when I am performing informally and in top form. AIthough I may not be one of the world’s leading exponents of false deals, I can communicate through words and pictures the benefits of my many years of study and effort - and that is true of each item in these volumes. That alone makes this course more than a compilation." |
EagerlyLearning New user 93 Posts |
I'm not so sure of the versatiliy of this bottom deal, e.g. how easy it is to do consecutive bottom deals or one-handed bottom deals. Seems mostly suited for single bottom deals, maybe accompanied by misdirection, as Giobbi stated himself. I might be wrong though, I have never studied this particular bottom deal extensively, only briefly. I recommend first and foremost to read Erdnase, and apart from that, any available resource you can find. The more sources the better, then trial and error to find what suits you best. The Jason England tutorial is very good, he teaches different grips, and the history of the move. I also like very much the Gene Maze book "The Art of Bottom Dealing". He uses a modified grip and a strike teechnique without any looesning action of the left fingers. There's a lot of great tricks in the book too.
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Rachmaninov Inner circle 1076 Posts |
I can't recommand enough the Maze book which describes very good bottom deals and double deals from top & bottom.
Some of the tricks are really gems. But don't look at them and leave them to me… |
kShepher Elite user Washington, DC 470 Posts |
Giobbi seems to go out of his way to encourage you to read as many books and sources as you possibly can. He has an incredible passion for the art and really wants people to achieve the same.
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts |
Couple of thoughts. Card College is a fine place to start for most any technique. After that, I agree with the post above about looking around for other sources, thoughts, etc. and then from that wealth of information you can synthesize it down and develop your own style. Take the bits and pieces from all of the above and keep what works for you.
Regarding consecutive bottom deals, they are rarely necessary and in my opinion ill-advised. They are probably more for gambling demonstrations.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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ssibal Veteran user 352 Posts |
Card College is a good start, but a bottom is very particular to your hand shape/size. I would recommend gathering as much material as possible if you're serious about being able to do this move well:
Expert at the Card Table Expert Card Technique Seconds, Centers and Bottoms ( compiled in Marlo's Revolutionary Card Technique ) Gene Maze Art of Bottom Dealing There are other sources as well, but these all offer a different perspective that combined will help you find what is right for your hands. Good luck! |
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