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Gamblor New user 24 Posts 
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Simple question-
When you look at the material you use for real people, is there a rift between what you're capable of versus what you actually use? If so, why? It seems the working magician who uses cards dumb down their act for lay people? Am I wrong about that? Do we see any "high art" magic being used for regular people by any performers? |
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warren Inner circle uk 4166 Posts
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The only things that I don't perform for lay people are effects that require the use of a table as when in a proper working environment table space isn't generally available and if it is it's minimal.
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danaruns Special user The City of Angels 808 Posts
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A person should practice from the edge of their skill set, but perform from the middle of it.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
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alicauchy Veteran user Málaga, Spain 310 Posts
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Quote:
On Sep 4, 2017, danaruns wrote: Agree. This was a good piece of advice I received as a beginner.
So much to do, so little time . . .
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Chatterbox41 Veteran user Atlanta, Georgia 349 Posts
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Quote:
On Sep 4, 2017, danaruns wrote: Love this... same advice for musicians. You practice and push yourself so you can back off and relax in performance. I have sleights and effects that I've literally worked on for years before actually being in a place of comfortable performance where I don't have to think about it. Gary |
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bdekolta Inner circle Texas 1636 Posts
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At this point I don't actually work on new material and would perform anything for anybody. That said I typically perform two different sets. Those two sets are fairly simple for the most part. As asked above I always chose audience response over method. Occasionally bringing out the tough stuff for repeat customers or group of men.
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Gamblor New user 24 Posts
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Method and effect are one and the same, I don't know how people can miss this so often.
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MitchC Elite user Can't believe I only have 415 Posts
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Quote:
On Sep 4, 2017, danaruns wrote: This is SO right on ! I grew up as a professional musician and achieved my 15 minutes of fame with a couple top forty hits. I would practice many difficult scales, runs, riffs...but in PERFORMANCE I would dramatically under use my skill set. Same holds true for doing Magic or most any other skill I think. |
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magicfish Inner circle 7016 Posts
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Quote:
On Sep 5, 2017, Gamblor wrote: Nothing could be further from the truth. |
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Rupert Pupkin Inner circle 1452 Posts
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Quote:
On Sep 5, 2017, magicfish wrote: Could you elaborate? |
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MeetMagicMike Inner circle Gainesville Fl 3504 Posts
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Effect: A person levitates
Method: A person levitates Well, that settles it, I guess. |
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Gamblor New user 24 Posts
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Quote:
On Sep 5, 2017, magicfish wrote: Effect: Spectator thinks of a card and the magician shows a card from the deck, it's the randomly thought of card. Method 1: Magician shows the spectator a group of cards and then shows them the cards a second time and asks if they saw their card, they did. The magician deals through and stops at a card, he asks for the name of the card then turns it over and it the selection (OOSOOM) Method 2: Magician shows a deck that's been cased the entire time, asks for the name of the thought of card, spreads the deck to reveal one card with a different back, it's the selection (Brainwave deck) The effect on the spectator is created via the method; how can you not understand that? If the method doesn't influence the effect, then the 21 card trick (find the selected card) is exactly the same effect as a having a card peeked and glimpsed and revealing it. Is that really what you think or are you just being a contrarian to argue with someone for the sake of it? Why do you think most magician are continually working to find newer, cleaner methods? Improving the method improves the effect left on the participant (that's what effect means). Maybe if you hadn't stopped your learning at one author you would have grasped that. 20 years of magic experience? More like 1 year 20 times over. |
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MeetMagicMike Inner circle Gainesville Fl 3504 Posts
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Saying the effect is created via the method is so obvious it hardly needs to be said.
Saying Method and effect are one and the same is so wrong it hardly needs to be refuted. |
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Ben Blau Inner circle 1475 Posts
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What a lot of people don't know about me is that I have well above-average sleight of hand capabilities. I almost never use sleights in my active repertoire. I believe in subtlety over brute force, as anyone familiar with my style knows.
However, I still think sleight of hand is valuable for more than one reason. One thing I like to say is that the reason I learned sleight of hand is for the same reason that modern seamen learn celestial navigation. At some point, their GPS units can fail, and they still need to find their way home. Sleight of hand is a great asset to help you get out of emergencies, should they unexpectedly arise. However, in my case, they rarely do. The other reason to learn sleight of hand is that it provides a perspective from which you can more objectively evaluate methods. If I know that something can be accomplished with a sleight, equipped with enough knowledge I can also assess whether or not the use of the sleight is the optimal choice. In my kind of material, it almost never is -- but it's available to me should I need it.
Ben Blau
http://www.benblaumentalism.com |
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Poof-Daddy Inner circle Considering Stopping At Exactly 5313 Posts
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First of all, the spectator should never "see" what you are capable of when it comes to which "finger flicking sleights" you "could have used". Whether it is a simple glide or a fantastic pass, to them, there was (or should be) no difference.
For me, when performing, I have some really great, super hardcore, move monkey effects I could do very well. Still, I continue to fall back on just a few "simpler" yet amazing effects that have never failed to astonish folks over the years. I may pull out 1 or 2 that I don't usually do a lot (especially for the people who know me or have seen me work several times before). But I prefer to work like a table hopper - smaller groups, few real cool effects and on to the next set - but at the same time, I am "loaded for bear" in case I need to be.
Cancer Sux - It is time to find a Cure
Don't spend so much time trying not to die that you forget how to live - H's wife to H on CSI Miami (paraphrased).  
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Medifro Inner circle Miami 1261 Posts
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Quote:
On Sep 5, 2017, MeetMagicMike wrote: Word bruh. Word. |
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magicfish Inner circle 7016 Posts
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Quote:
On Sep 5, 2017, Gamblor wrote: I won't respond to your childish flame. Those who know me know that what you have said about me is inaccurate to put it mildly. I will, however, take the high road and try to help you. If you are having trouble understanding how effect and method are not one and the same, I recommend starting with Maskelyne, Professor Hoffmann, Darwin Ortiz, Theo Annemann, John Carney. These authors will give you a good foundation, but I think MeetMagicMike said it best above. |
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JBSmith1978 Veteran user NY 389 Posts
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So, what method do you use for card in lemon? See what I did there?
Method: a way, technique, or process of or for doing something. Effect: The result or outcome of a cause. Impression left on the mind; sensation produced. To the OP: Hmm, what I do and what I'm capable of isn't terribly dependent on difficulty. What I do is based on things that somewhat delight me to perform. I have a pretty extensive sleight of hand toolbox, which I use constantly. While sleights are important, they are a means to an end. Whatever end that may be. What do you mean by "High Art" magic? I wouldn't say that Epilogue was any more a high art rag than The Pallbearers Review. |
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magicfish Inner circle 7016 Posts
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Quote:
On Sep 6, 2017, JBSmith1978 wrote: Yes, I see what you did there, you proved that effect and method cannot be one and the same to create the illusion of magic. The effect is: a signed card demateriaizes- vanishes without a trace into thin air- as if by supernatural means. Then, the card re-materializes...but not just anywhere. No. It re-materializes inside an unpeeled, untouched, piece of fruit plucked from a bowl or even from a tree (a la Ammar). It seems like real magic. that's the wonder. that's the mental freefall. that's the NFW moment that got us all hooked in the first place. That's the magic EFFECT. That, however, is NOT the method. |
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MeetMagicMike Inner circle Gainesville Fl 3504 Posts
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One particularly silly post seems to have vanished from this thread. I know the mods remove posts for various reasons but it being lame one of them?
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Posted: Sep 4, 2017 04:27 pm 
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