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Senor Fabuloso Inner circle 1243 Posts |
Quote:
On May 30, 2018, NYCTwister wrote: It's an absolute for me and a suggestion to those who asked for my opinion.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.
If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL! |
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
And a great suggestion at that.
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
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On May 30, 2018, Senor Fabuloso wrote: So, Mary Margaret Murgatroid, 50, overweight, and with severe carpel tunnel syndrome, buys your book. Do you suggest to her that that she should be able to fight off 5 attackers, while out matched and outgunned, and that she should immediately begin training so as to be able to do so?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
...someone doesn't get it.
Why are you going for the jugular here? The man is knowledgeable and is writing/has written a book about survival. Self Defense is a wonderful skill to have whether you are 10 or 90. What happens when 6 guys with uzis corner a 90 year old lady with a yellow belt in karate? I guess she gets greased. What is your point? |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
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On May 30, 2018, magicfish wrote: I get it completely. My point is that if the man writes a book on survival, and states an opinion on situation, then he should be able to support his position. Does the fact that I'm asking him questions bother you for some reason? I think that SF IS knowledgeable, but I think he may be a little too knowledgeable to be of use to the average citizen. His level of skill may be so high that his advice doesn't relate; just as my advice wouldn't relate to a beginning chess player who asks me what they should have done. In any event he's set himself up as an expert, so I can't see how it's a problem to ask him what he suggests, or to question the answers. In this case JoeJoe said - "If you have a knife, people will try to take it, (and if they try, you should give it up), so it's better to be able to find/make what you need as you go along." To which SF said - "That's bad advice. That makes you prey." Fair enough, he disagrees. So I wondered what he'd do, an asked a not very far fetched hypothetical, expecting a nuanced answer from an expert. I got -"You take them out" which didn't seem very useful, since most people can't; Rambo fantasies notwithstanding. When I pointed that out, I got hindsight advice about what should have been done. Also not useful. It seems obvious that for the average person to try to fight in that situation is a horrible idea; and the assumption that "they're going to hurt/kill you anyway: is deeply flawed. They may, in which case you're screwed in any event; but there's a good chance they'll just rob you, and the attempt to fight might trigger aggression. Giving up the knife doesn't make you prey, it makes you a survivor; which is the point of the subject. Like I said, he views the subject from a level of skill far above the general public, and if he wrote the book with that bias then much of it may make sense to him, but not be useful to most people. When thinking about the different viewpoints that JoeJoe and SF have, I keep thinking about which tree is more likely to survive a hurricane - the oak, or the willow? Most of the time, your best bet for survival is to travel with the grass.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Senor Fabuloso Inner circle 1243 Posts |
Twister, I was once hired by a security company tyo teach basic eself defense to some over 50 individuals in a neighborhood that had been taken over by crime. This was a one day training that included the police. The police went first. Much of what they talked about centered around compliance. When I had heard enough I interrupted with "so what your say is they should just submit?" They said yes. When I pointed out the facts which they knew about how submitting can and does lead to death they changed their tune and started talking self defense.
The thing is it's rarely a good idea to just "give it up" that makes you a willing victim. You might be able to find some situation with no hope that might warrant submission? But I always advocate fighting back and here is why. Criminals tend to want an easy mark. If they wanted to work they would get jobs. Instead they prefer to take what others have worked for or worse. So when you "give it up" you encourage this behavior. I believe that we are all responsible for our own safety, security and survival. But we are also responsible for the societal impact of our dissensions. I don't want to courage crime so I advocate fighting back. However I also advocate avoidance, situational awareness, counter measures that would help people not be in the scenarios you propose. Are they perfect? No. Nothing is but they give people the chance to survive where advice like just "give it up" would lead to horrible consequences. Maybe submission is the survival move under certain circumstances? And you can keep searching for those situations until you find one where I might say OK in that situation give it up. But almost always I recommend fighting back. It's one thing to be victimized by others. It's another thing to have victimized yourself. Many people who submit to violence are twice victimized by first the victimizor then by the feeling of helplessness and the thoughts of "what if". What if I had fought back? What if I had screamed ? What if I hadn't gone down that street. It plays over and over in the mind of the victom and can cause people problems they never dreamed of. Agoraphobia is just one. So while you may have considered my suggestion worthless it really is the foundation of what I teach and so I told it here. Btw no book can substitute for actual training. If your going to fight back get trained. I can and do however give a basic written outline to a selfdefence system that works for the elderly and even children in my book. It's based on a marital art called HiKUTA. You can learn it in a day and it shows how to fight multiple opponents and even how to use common objects as weapons. I hope this post was more helpful than the ones before? Sometimes I just want to get to the nitty gritty as fast as possible.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.
If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL! |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
It was longer, but it didn't change anything.
By your own logic they want an easy mark/time, so your advice is to give them a hard time? You're writing a book on survival in extreme/unusual circumstances and you want them to fight back so as not to embolden criminals on a macro level? I didn't look up HIKUTA since it doesn't matter. There is NO martial art that you can teach a person in a day that can prepare them to defeat five guys with a gun; and to teach them that they can is dangerous and irresponsible. Did you also tell them the dangers to a person who usually doesn't deal with violence, if they anger those who live with it as a way of life? The moment after granny makes the first move, for whatever super-technique you taught her in a few hours, she'll be overwhelmed, probably beaten, and possibly shot. Situational awareness, avoidance, etc, I'm all for, but I doubt we need a new book for that; just like we don't need a new book on beginning chess openings. Again, good on you for being prepared, but I think you're a little too skilled for the average person to relate to. No offense, but from your advice on the above situation, and the Shamwow thing, I haven't heard any good advice, so I won't be buying your book. Btw, since you say that a go to bag isn't always available, why not release it digitally, so people have multiple ways of accessing it?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Senor Fabuloso Inner circle 1243 Posts |
Quote:
On May 31, 2018, NYCTwister wrote: I never said I could teach them to defeat 5 guys and one with a gun. What I said was I could teach them to defend themselves. You really tend to look past much of what I write to make your points. Did you not see what I said about situational awareness and avoidance as a strategy? Your scenarios would never happen to my students because they know better. I understand how unprepared and weak you are twister given your "I don't want to survive strategy" but some people have a different perspective. At this point I've tried all I'm willing to do for you and I believe your just trying to waste my time. Have a good day.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.
If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL! |
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Senor Fabuloso Inner circle 1243 Posts |
Just saw that you did see the part about avoidance and situational awareness but you obviously don't know anything about them. Can you describe for the class the different stages of alertness? What do you do at each level? If you want to contribute something of value I'm all ears. If not I just assume not waste my time.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.
If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL! |
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JoeJoe Inner circle Myrtle Beach 1915 Posts |
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On May 30, 2018, magicfish wrote: It's not about you, it is about human behavior. It is about what other people will be doing. Can't have people wiping their butt with their bare hands, it would spread disease so people will just start using what they have around them. It is not theory of mine, it is what I have already witnessed in these situations. Look at what happened during Katrina, not only did people not know how to boil water the city officials specifically issued a message telling them not to. People are clueless these days. -JoeJoe
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
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Senor Fabuloso Inner circle 1243 Posts |
Quote:
On May 31, 2018, JoeJoe wrote: And you would keep them clueless because according to you "one either knows how to survive or they don't". One of the most idiotic statements ever uttered on the subject of survival.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.
If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL! |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
Quote:
On May 31, 2018, Senor Fabuloso wrote: For such a supposed tough guy, you sure don't have much control over your emotions. That could get you killed in a tense situation. All I'm doing is asking questions of a self pro-claimed expert, and so far nothing you've said couldn't have been found by anyone with an internet connection; and your consistent reaction to anyone who doesn't agree with you is to attack and insult. You said - "I can and do however give a basic written outline to a selfdefence system that works for the elderly and even children in my book. It's based on a marital art called HiKUTA. You can learn it in a day and it shows how to fight multiple opponents and even how to use common objects as weapons." You said fight back. You recommend training in HIKATU, and can it can teach the elderly and children to fight multiple opponents Get trained - with a gun - if you want to fight back, would be practical advice. All the rest is machismo, probably due to watching too many Bruce Lee movies. My problem is that I DO read everything you write. Your problem is, ironically, that you're unprepared to answer questions about perceived flaws and contradictions. I've managed to live 55 years in NYC without ever being the victim of a crime, so I'll take my chances with what's worked so far; as weak as unprepared as you need to think I am. And, speaking about how you only read what you want to see; I've said that I'll do my best, but I won't turn into a paranoid killer in order to survive. Btw, I've been trying to help YOU see past your own ego, because your advice - "be harder than the hardest hypothetical situation" will waste a persons time at best; and get them killed at worst.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
Quote:
On May 31, 2018, NYCTwister wrote: This is ridiculous. Plain and simple. A martial art can avert somebody grabbing you and holding you and could allow you to escape a situation. It is useful in countless scenarios. It's success does not hinge on whether or not it will enable a cornered granny to take out 5 armed guys with guns drawn. |
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Animated Puppets Loyal user Lost on a Green Screen 285 Posts |
Seriously
I still recall the day I met Beaker from the Muppets. He said to me "Meep, meep, mee mee mee Meep!", and that has made all the difference.
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
I never said it wasn't useful.
I just said that in the scenario I proposed, fighting back is stupid for the average person to try. Same question to you. Should Mary Margaret Murgatroid try to fight to keep her knife?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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Senor Fabuloso Inner circle 1243 Posts |
Once again twister your wrong. I never said I'm a tough guy. In fact I said that people I care about can get to me greatly. But no anonymous person on a board can ever get my my goat. I'm going to prove how little I care about you or what you have to say now by ignoring you.
magicfish it's not worth your time he's like joey in his absolute ignorance and dosn't want to learn. Truly it's no skin off my nose.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.
If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL! |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Wow.
Ok a few things. (But it just occurred to me why twister has such a great handle. He twists everything.) First of all I want to know how after giving up his knife ol Joe Joe is going to just make another? I'll give him electricity and a forge and I doubt his ability to do so. But onto the real point. The reason ADT puts visible signs in your yard is as a deterrent. Burglars pick an easier house. No barking dogs and less light and so forth. In other words you avoid being a victim long before crime occurs in many cases. This is the main point Fabuloso is making that many are missing. Now does this mean that is 5 guys attacked him with knives and guns he would be ok? He never said so and the answer is no. In some situations you will die and nothing will change that. You can only act in a way that improves your odds of survival. Acting like a victim and compliance is not the best path. In theory at least it sets you up for future problems. Being meek and all that might seem useful but in predatory situations it is not. And I'm sorry but Joe Joe can't keep from talking here on the Internet. In my neighborhood where there was law he would have been clobbered every two minutes. With no law his mouth would have him planted as fertilizer pretty quick. Oh and news flash. There are cities in this county right now that young and old people live in every day in survival conditions. No need for Hollywood style issues. They have electricity and laws. Often the laws are part of the problem. The just give it up theory is not one which keeps you alive.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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