Thanks Dick

And HighClass, I am not 100% convinced that you read down to the part where I shared some of my "funny bits" that I get good responses from, I admit that number 2 may not be very useful to ANYONE else, as far as I know. But it WORKS for me. Don't forget not all comedy need be "lines" - or rather more accurately that the lines can be stage directions. Number 3 may not work for others either. In fact there is only one other EA (adult) in the UK that I know of who can slip a Hanburg 8! (we both escaped Mick Hanzlicks beatifully crafted Houdini's Mirror handcuff replica too - it takes a few minutes but the reactions are great! And the repeat escape at much faster speed gets even better reactions).

Don't get me wrong comedy is good (for example I still look forward to see what your writeRs come up with) but I don't see the point of comedy escapes. Take Michael Griffin, for example, he is a working full time EA pro ....I've not heard him talk about doing comedy escapes and for a really good reason I believe. It is the same with magic too - one of my favourite magicnas to watch is John Archer .... He does 'serious proper big boy magic' (as a friend of mine calls it) ....John is as funny as anyone, but he does not 'water his magic down' to be funny. He is funny and puts on a great show with high quality magic. No need for him to do "funny magic tricks" his comedy adds to his super strong magic. If he did all his tricks straight he would be a very good magician! Same with EAs - do strong solid escapes that get great reactions, sure use comedy as part of your presentation but to do comedy escapes to me is belittling escapes. I'm not a purist in terms of only "legit" escapes. I believe that any method is justified so long as it's entertaining. And if your going to sell items that require a switch or can't be examined I think you need to be honest and upfront about that. For example if you sell a set of cuffs that can not be examined unless the double lock is on you should not say they are fully examinable. Or a lock that has no pins in it at all don't say it's an easy pick lock that can be examined.


Take Gazzo, you either love his performing style or hate him, but his magic is top quality - he took years to hone it on the street. He has a book of lines out.... He doesn't give them away for free....they too were developed over years working them in performance. No magician would just approach him and ask him for a fee copy of his book and expect to get it for free. Sure some are cheeky enough to ask but don't expect to get it for free.

Let me put this another way...... Would you turn up at an escape convention (or a magic convention) and walk up to a performer and ask them outright for their SJ or their Tom Horn belt (insert any other prop here)? I suspect it's a no. Why not? Because those items have a perceived value! For an escape artist (you can change this for magician, sideshow performer, even juggler) their words, their lines, their patter that they have developed is part of their act. It has value, it has been worked on! It's not something that has little or no value to be just given away for free. I can fully understand Dick's response and if you don't get it ..... Well you ... don't get it and you probably won't get it. No matter how simply it were put on paper. And if you don't get it now I suspect you would not spot the good stuff now and even if you would spot it you would likely not value it. It's part of why people can be precious over script - it's as important as the "method" and the "affect" (using Timon Krause's definitions /terminology from the book "Which Hand, Method and Philosophy").

We may. Over time when asked by a friend, valued colleague, a member of our local circle or club share some of what we value of our script and lines but surely we are not expected or obliged, at first asking by someone we barely know, to giveaway our best material? Which IS EXACTLY what you expected. From the tone you used in your first post it felt, to me, like you entirely expected to get all you needed/wanted just from a cursory post that you just threw out there- did you even proof read it? Now before you say, "I'm dyslexic", or "I speak different language".....or another reason why your post may have had a certain "tone" or looked like you hadn't even bothered to proofread your post or it just sounded like you had not spotted that.....let me say this.... We didn't know of any of those potential issues for you...and ... in fact we don't know you. We have not had chance to meet you. Maybe we would like you? Or hate you....or loath you....or just think you're ok.....we haven't had the chance to get to know you before you wanted and outright asked (it felt almost like demanded) our "prized possessions" (your terminology) and then get upset at Dick when he pointed out that his "prized posessions" are indeed PRIZED by him. Lol you have to see the irony there right?

I have not criticised you, I have shared some of my lines and ideas with you and you reply by insulting me and Dick. There is plenty that one can learn from the likes of Dick without that someone spoon feeding their lines to you. I've learnt a shed load from reading other people's posts and even better visiting a performer at an event 200 miles away to spend the day with that performer. I can guarantee you that I didn't learn stuff from them by just asking them outright for their "prized posessios" when I first met them and certainly not from asking them via the very impersonal email or over the phone via text before getting to know them. I did, however, learn a lot from watching, listening and thinking. Sure I asked questions but not until after I watched, thought and had got to know them.

I'm not saying that everyone on here should withhold their lines and ideas from you. I just think your approach was not the best and to have a dig at Dick when he pointed this out to you was just immature. I know I'm immature.....my missus always tells me. But I try not to behave that way.

Let's turn this round to help make the point. Some 6 years ago I had what some may call a major lifestyle change. I was aware of another performer who had been through this same change. I contacted them. Did I ask for their prized possessions....and for free....nope. I apologised for taking up their time without them asking me to contact them and asked for permission to introduce myself (I'd met them before but they meet more people than I do so I had no expectation for them to remember me). I explained my situation (similar to theirs some years sooner) and asked if they had any advice that they were willing to share about how they had coped with this change some years sooner. What did I get? A lovely email reply and the very pleasant surprise of some books that this person had written. Way more than I had hoped for and a million times more than I expected. I think I even put in my email something like "I'm sure you get a a lot of emails asking for help, please do not feel like you have to reply and I think you for taking the time to read my email".

Some of the things that I have learnt over the years in magic, escapes, side show and even clowning (darn it I promised Myself I would not mention that in public) is that ...

1) anyone can self publish- some put time, effort and finance in to their self published work (thinking the Black Project from Looch) others don't put these things into their work and still self publish (not naming here but I have a long list)
2) the value of something you buy is not always what you payed for it. That works both ways, sometimes you buy something and it is not worth what you paid, other times you get a lot more value than you paid.
3) some people sell secrets that a) don't belong to them and are not theirs to sell and b) they don't do justice to theses secrets when they publish them.
4) sometimes people sing the praises of something that is simply not that good.
5) it's dead easy to say negative things about someone online and not actually consider what they have said. Truth can sometimes be a bitter pill to swallow.

Regardless of what you think you know about me.... I still think your fist post in years was worded badly and you were asking for people's performing "valuables" without any thought for them at all. You could have approached it a lot differently..... Eg introduce yourself and maybe discuss the project your working on. Then maybe ask if anyone has any lines that the would Be happy to share. I'm sure you,would have had a better response, although ATU is very quiet these days. I'm 99.9% sure if you had asked for a specific method to be tipped you would have had more replies saying no and more people would have accepted that as a response.

One last hing to say then like Dick, I'm probably not going to post on this thread again...

Just for you Mr or Mrs , Master or Miss highclass (it's a non gender specific name so I don't know which you are...not that that actually makes a difference)...

Yes I don't perform escapes as much as I used to. But being frustrated about not doing so ... not at all! I do get frustrated because of the thing that has made me perform fewer escapes and it is not for lack of opportunities or demand it is because of "it". "It" is the other thing that 'frustrate me' so to suggest I don't perform because you didn't like me reply and omits like beefing grumpy is laughable. To add to that "it" doesn't stop me as much as it might stop others. Im not going to get into it on an open forum. ...But I will say "IT AINT NO ARMCHAIR highclass!" (My own private joke there).

Have a good Friday evening one and all.

Oh and when will you be Harding the ideas that your writes come up with?

Mr. High Class,

I think you have made a small mistake. Dick's words and Dave's words both came out sounding angry, at least to me as I have corresponded here with both of them for several years. Both of them have some very real-world experience. If you are starting out, or close to starting out, then listening to those with more experience is wise.

The reason I shared my cop experience with you is that I felt it cost me nothing, and it is a line I wrote in 2005. If you wanted my more current lines, I would probably not share them at this time.

My best advice for you is to re-read this thread, all of Dick's comments and all of Dave's comments. Try to take out the anger of it, and read what they are really telling you.

If you develop your own patter on your own, and it fits you and works for your character, you will have grown by it and become a stronger performer. Like I said, take out the anger, read it and learn from it if you can.

OH... and telling us a little bit about yourself could be a good thing. WHere you live, what kind of performing you do etc.

Dick's contributions to this forum are priceless. They are almost always given and shared freely. They are gifts. That same spirit of giving may not be what one encounters, or deserves, when asking for people's hard earned 'bits' as if expecting them to be offered up just because you want them. Perhaps you didn't meant to come across that way.

I would like to point out that some people are funny, and some are not. Having a funny line will not make an unfunny person comedic.

Dat's da trooth!!!

"I'd like to make a few off the cuff remarks..." as a pair of handcuffs, thumbcuffs, and a chain slither out your sleeve and drop to the floor.

If you can make that work it is one hell of a site gag.

HMMMM, I wonder what happened to "High class"!

Surely this is a troll.