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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
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On Mar 12, 2023, Bob G wrote: Actually, the guy made a joke about stealing my coin, which I caught out of the corner of my eye. I deliberately misconstrued this as him switching coins. By acting like that was okay--it actually is okay--I was able to help convince the entire audience of the fairness of the coin--"it doesn't matter, we can use yours..." But would it add anything to the effect had I said, "This half dollar represents a little boy, and this bottle a cookie jar that is guarded by a monster," would that have added to the mystery or trivialized it? The allegorical patter can be made to work, but it is not the strongest. "These Jacks represent four robbers, and the deck will be the house they are robbing..." This patter works to help the audience remember the situation of the four cards at the beginning and then at the end. It is not a gripping story that would stand on it's own. It works, but this is fairly beginner level stuff, and seems in presentation like a "magic trick" rather than "magic." In an effect like "Kate and Edith" who ever remembers what the magic effect was? It is the comedic story that is important, not the magic. The story is important, and the magic effects are really just illustrative. Sometimes a magic effect is included in an act for other reasons than magic. Some effects are interesting interludes, comedic change of pace, character building pieces, etc., etc. Not every magic trick has to be strong magic, nor should it be. I think there is a way to make almost anything work. If the story doesn't add significantly to the magic effect, why do we need it? I don't want to discourage you from experimenting. I think you should try the patter story without the effect, see if it is interesting enough to hold the audience's interest--that it has a payoff. Do the effect without the patter. See if it really needs the story. I use a similar patter with the Phoenix Aces. The story isn't important, but it does help frame the effect and give it a magical "feel." |
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Bob G Inner circle 2830 Posts |
Having read the solution to coin-thru-bottle in your lecture notes, I think I can see one way you could make the exchange of coins work.
A few brief reactions -- but mostly, heartfelt thanks for teaching me so much. 1. "This half dollar represents a little boy,..." -- Trivialize it, of course. 2. "Kate and Edith" -- I had to look this one up. The story kept me from even noticing the magic. I watched two versions, and boy, what a difference! Properly presented, the "poem" is really funny. Reminds me of a piano piece that I would never have taken on if I'd heard only the first five renditions I listened to. Fortunately, there was a sixth... 3. I don't want to discourage you from experimenting. --- Thank you! 4. I think you should try the patter story without the effect, see if it is interesting enough to hold the audience's interest--that it has a payoff. Do the effect without the patter. See if it really needs the story. -- Your point is well taken. Burnaby suggested something similar. I'd add, "Do the trick *with* the patter, too, and see how audiences react. 5. If the story doesn't add significantly to the magic effect, why do we need it? --- Because it's fun. Why do we need anything, besides food, drink, shelter, and a "Best Friend" as Garrison Keilor used to call it. We don't *need* to watch football, or go to the beach, or read novels, but if we enjoy them, why not? Maybe in some cases a story makes magic less magical but adds some fun. In that case, why not? 6. I use a similar patter with the Phoenix Aces. The story isn't important, but it does help frame the effect and give it a magical "feel." -- I'm really glad you included this video and your thinking about it. I agree that the Phoenix patter enhanced the effect, and it was integrated nicely with the effect. In that sense it's the sort of thing I want to strive for in some of my magic.... ....Please take this as a compliment, not an insult: Out of all the youtubes I've seen of your work, this seemed to me the weakest -- not much of a criticism, given how much I enjoy your videos in general. I'm not sure why I had a different reaction to this one. Maybe I've gotten to a point that one of my students (who became a good friend) did. At the beginning he would be flabbergasted by my tricks. By the time he graduated, he'd say, calmly, "That must have required some serious hand work." In other words, he'd become somewhat jaded, and it was enough for him to know that I had mastered some sleight of hand to make the effect possible. But there's more going on than that, because, with this one exception I enjoy your magic a great deal. All very interesting... Again, many thanks for taking so much time to help me begin to think through these issues. Oh! -- One another thing: Do you ever tour? If you ever went to NYC, for instance, it would be easy for me to hop on a train and attend a performance. Bob |
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Bob G Inner circle 2830 Posts |
P. S. about the "four robbers" trick: "The story isn't gripping and wouldn't stand on its own." I agree, and if we want the magic to be effective we probably don't want the story to stand on its own -- that's my uninformed opinion, anyway: a riveting story would ruin the trick, as in Kate and Edith.
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
I'm glad you found some things helpful. "Because it's fun!" is usually a good argument in my mind. However, it can lead to self-indulgence where we are having fun at the expense of the spectator's experience. Good luck!
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Bob G Inner circle 2830 Posts |
Thanks!
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critter Inner circle Spokane, WA 2653 Posts |
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On Mar 12, 2023, Bob G wrote: I do want to clarify that it isn't a universal. Chung Ling Soo was obviously a complete fabrication, *but* it was born out of him being an introvert and not wanting to have to talk. Ultimately we all have a mix of "playing pretend" convincingly and adding our own passions and interests, or even quirks, to it. At least, that's how I see it.
"The fool is one who doesn't know what you have just found out."
~Will Rogers |
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Bob G Inner circle 2830 Posts |
That's interesting, Critter. I need to learn more about the history of magic. I've heard of "Chung Ling Soo" but know nothing about his work. Interesting to hear how he used a disadvantage to his advantage. Sometimes restrictions actually promote creativity in the arts.
Finally: Ray, I just wanted to thank you for your reminder that some people practice magic just because they love it, and don't perform at all. I'm an introvert myself (like Chung Ling Soo, apparently), and the reminder takes some weight off my shoulders. Mind you I *do* want to perform -- after all, I stood in front of classes for 40 years. Somehow I was often able to transfer the way I behave with friends -- which I think I can say is often "sparkly." But now that I'm retired, I'm glad I don't have to get in front of biggish groups. I'm happy for now to just keep learning magic, and perform informally for small numbers as opportunities present themselves. Bob Bob |
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
Working on character and backstory is the final step in developing as a magician. First, one needs to learn to entertain with magic--and develop a set of magic effects that you personally enjoy and want to develop into an act. You can't win at chess by just studying books. You have to play.
When you have a set in mind, with a number of tricks that appeal to you, then you begin to think about character and backstory. What story and character can bring these effects together in a way that makes sense? The biggest problem most magicians have is that they aren't looking for a full character. They jump for the most obvious in order to "tell" the audience who they are. "I want to do an Indiana Jones character, so I will need tricks I can do with a whip, pistol, and a fedora..." "I'm an Old West gambler, so I can only do gambling demonstrations." Here the performer is limiting his choices for no reason. A character is not a Halloween costume, or a chance to play your favorite cosplay. It is the story of how the performer came to be in front of this audience, what he wants from them, and where he is headed. |
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Bob G Inner circle 2830 Posts |
This definitely helps. Some of the things you mentioned earlier seemed laudable but overwhelming. By putting the development in chronological order, you've built a ladder whose lowest rungs I've begun to climb.
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