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E-Leoni Veteran user USA 358 Posts |
My English bulldog has a lot of feelings, and emotions. Happiness is an emotions, sorrow is an emotion. I could go on and on, but I will not.
E-Leoni. |
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Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
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On 2002-07-23 14:23, Andy Leviss wrote: STOP READING MY MIND! Though I do want to address this topic through the Psychic Technology books I want to get some footwork done on it first... find out the do's & don'ts (should any of you here wish to share some insight about your experiences doing such... ) Speaking of Psychic Technologies... I have another little bit of research I'm doing right now too, that may interest some of those that picked up the "Money Making Mystery Mansions" booklet... I've been invited to haunt an entire town... even for me this is going to be a miracle! Though I'm not familiar with the Webster book noted above, knowing Richard I'd say it has some solid foundations behind it. Too, I generally recommend learning as much as you can from the Shut-eye side of the market so you know the buzz words, etc. to use.
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
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Jim Reynolds Elite user Special Guest 431 Posts |
I think the biggest challenge in doing pet readings would be keeping a straight face
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christopher carter Special user 660 Posts |
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On 2002-07-23 17:39, dpe666 wrote: The claim of a psychic being able to read a pet is vastly more probably than the claim that animals do not feel emotion. Or perhaps I am misunderstanding what you mean by emotion. In fact most non-human animals communicate primarily by demonstrating emotional states. Considering the vast amount of research into animal behavior, I think it can be considered scienfific fact that animals do feel emotions. The degree to which various animal emotions might have cognates with human emotions, well, that might be a different story, but it does not negate the fact that animals do express emotional states. Now as to whether animals 'reason,' I think the definition of reasoning would have to be defined more clearly. Most non-human animals are not apparently capable of abstract thought, yet great apes can be taught to understand the concept of zero. This is something that humans only figured out a within the last few thousand years. If abstract thought is to be equated with reasoning, then clearly some animals can reason. Problem solving is often included by psychologists as a component of reasoning. The ability of various animals to problem solve is extremely well established in scientific literature. Monkeys, when taught to swim, then went back to their family groups and taught other monkeys to swim. Swimming is not an instinctive behavior for primates. The reason that mammals are studies by psychologists is that mammalian cognition differs over a continuum. There are clearly differences between human and non-human cognition, but there are enough similarities, even in the more 'primitive' mammals, to make legitimate comparisons possible. As for the pet psychic, I think she's fun. Not the best technique I've ever seen, but overall I find her more entertaining than many human psychic entertainers. --Christopher Carter |
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liormanor Regular user Israel 114 Posts |
It is a new market for all you doing readings
What about astrology,Numerology, etc. for animals? does it work the same? New revenu streams |
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Sniper New user 75 Posts |
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On 2002-07-23 17:39, dpe666 utterly missed the boat and spat forth: Firstly, it is OBVIOUS that animals possess, as well as express, emotions. Happiness, sadness, fear, anger, confusion - you don't need to be psychic (or even very smart) to observe them manifest it clearly. Both in the wild and domestically. Most animals are NOT capable of "rational" thought, although many are capable of "learning" and some (primates and dolphins are obvious) exhibit clear intellectual functions and problem solving skills - however rudimentary to our perceptions. Secondly, "Animal Rights Lunatics" have not said that "animals are equal with humans". People who are in favor of Animal Rights simply believe animals should not be subject to abuse and mistreatment simply because human beings have developed a "taste" for it... As an side note: how many of you have done magic for a dog? They love sleight of hand - my dog used to be amazed by my sponge ball routine! Try it!!! Sn!per |
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E-Leoni Veteran user USA 358 Posts |
My English Bulldog loves card production.
The tilted head says it all. E-Leoni. |
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dpe666 Inner circle 2895 Posts |
"People who are in favor of Animal Rights simply believe animals should not be subject to abuse and mistreatment simply because human beings have developed a "taste" for it..."
If we are not supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat? Look, I am not in favor of abuse and mistreatment of animals. However, I am also very much against people throwing red paint on a woman's fur coat, people breaking in to mink farms and labs, and letting them out of cages(which is trespassing, breaking and entering, vandalism, and stealing all wrapped up into one), people telling me that I can't eat meat, shutting down entire logging communities, putting thousands out of work, because they might be endangering some tree beetle. I go on and on, but I think you get the point. |
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christopher carter Special user 660 Posts |
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I go on and on, but I think you get the point. I get the point. Your concerns are with political issues about which, goodness knows, reasonable people disagree. Actually I don't disagree with most of your issues, but this is fodder for a different discussion. My comments were intended only to be about the science behind animal congition. I'm kind of a science geek, and it's a topic that interests me, so I've read quite a bit about it. Nevertheless, its me who led this topic astray. My apologies! As for whether it is possible to psychically read a pet, obviously we could go into more obscure definitions of 'psychic' and probably come up with some way of saying 'yes.' But if we adhere to the more commonly accepted ideas of 'psychic,' then I believe not. However, I honestly don't care if she's real or not. Same with Edward, Van Praagh, Geller, et. al. Or to try to put it more clearly, since I am a scoffer, I just work from the assumption that they aren't real. (Yes, Darmoe, I know that 'real' can have a more nuanced meaning. I agree wholeheartedly, it's just not my point at the moment.) My only concern is whether they're entertaining or theatrically compelling in the role of psychic. For the first two of the three mentioned, I think they are. I think its fun to discuss who's a fake and who's not, but only as an insider conversation. When it comes to discussion with layfolk, I try to answer honestly, "I don't know for sure." I know a lot of people get all riled up about spreading "false beliefs," but I really think each individual is responsible for his/her own beliefs. Since easily ninety percent of all people cherish beliefs that I would consider false, it doesn't behoove me to get too cocky about what people want to believe. Warmest Regards, Christopher Carter |
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Brash Regular user 149 Posts |
I know what my neighbour's cat was thinking about last night.
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Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
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On 2002-07-25 10:07, liormanor wrote: I know of a lady in L.A. that's been doing charts and numbers for pets for decades... she makes a killing on them too!
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
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dpe666 Inner circle 2895 Posts |
All politics aside, the Pet Psychic is a fraud. However, unlike some "psychics", I don't think that she realizes that she is a fake. I think that maybe she does believe that she is psychically communicating with people's pets. I think that she attaches a human emotion to a pet's act of instinct (bred or inbred), and believes that makes her psychic. As far as who is and who isn't a fake psychic, I say they all are fakes. I believe this because I have seen it faked too many times done.
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Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
All psychics are fakes
The Pet Psychic claims to be psychic. Therefore the Pet Psychic is fake. Anyone else see the flaw in the above argument? Or how 'bout this one? Most psychics are fake. Therefore all psychics are fake. - or - Most lottery tickets won't win the jackpot. Therefore all lottery tickets won't win the jackpot. I've never seen a winning lottery ticket, but I know they exist. (And maybe, one day, I'll actually HAVE one in my hands) It only takes one exception to 'prove' (test) the rule... True psychics may be a truly rare phenomenon. Or perhaps psychic ability or events are elusive, and only appear in rare circumstances... or are easily discounted as something else. But to already make up your mind about the whole phenomenon, sounds rather close-minded to me. A true skeptic always considers the possibility of an exception.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
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Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
>A true skeptic always considers the possibility of an exception.<
The more I see your post Phil, the more I like you... There is a great deal "ASSUMED" in today's world, much of it a double standard. As I pointed out in another thread (rather harshly)if Jesus himself were alive today most of the good christians involved with magic and taking a dump on all things psychic and spiritual, would fight over who gets to drive in the first nail. I've met few "skeptics" who have that "opened mind" or an admitted desire to see and experience the phenomenal... there are a few who openly state "I want to be proven wrong... I want to believe!" They are exceptionally rare however... at least, in my experience. They do not want to accept the subtle, nor admit personal connections that have occured (undoubtedly) in the course of their lives; circumstances written off as coencidence, happenstance, or (dare I say this?) "A Lucky Guess"... It all comes back to what I've said for years... there's a middle ground that lends support to either side of this issue; sustaining the faith of the believer and the realities of charlatanism offered by the skeptic. When we allow ourselves that middle "grey" place of understanding, that's when we can best serve our fellow being as well as our own spiritual calling, in life. That's just my two-cents worth though... I don't know a dang thing about any of it
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
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Brash Regular user 149 Posts |
The Skeptic faith can be as blind as any other.
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dpe666 Inner circle 2895 Posts |
"Most lottery tickets won't win the jackpot.
Therefore all lottery tickets won't win the jackpot. I've never seen a winning lottery ticket, but I know they exist. (And maybe, one day, I'll actually HAVE one in my hands)." I have never seen a fake lottery. When fraud is proven in a lottery, however, the person responsible goes to prison. Just a small note, I enjoy a good friendly debate. As long as there is an emphasis on the word FRIENDLY. I want to make sure that in these debates no one is getting angry, or getting hurt. I think sometimes because we cannot hear each other when we make a point, things get misunderstood. |
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Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
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On 2002-07-25 17:02, dpe666 wrote: What about a lottery where the numbers on the tickets are altered after the drawing so that no one is a winner? I'm referring (by way of metaphor) to CSICOP's notorious sTARBABY scandal... :evilgrin: P.S. - For some interesting links to numerous articles about close-minded skepticism, check out this website: http://www.amasci.com/weird/wclose.html
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
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Mary B. Café Tech Advisor Howard City, Michigan 626 Posts |
This topic has been locked. It has veered wildly off course from the question originally asked, and turned into a discussion of the existence (or lack thereof) of emotion or rational thought in animals, among other things.
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I was just wondering if there are the same objections/moral dilemma to a pet psychic as there are towards John Edwards, as he does essentially the same things only funnier. Mary B. |
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