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IMAGINACIAN Special user In Your Thots 558 Posts |
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On May 20, 2020, Gary1976 wrote: Thank you Gary, for a no nonsense review.
There is no better freedom than choice and no better choice than freedom.
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IMAGINACIAN Special user In Your Thots 558 Posts |
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On May 20, 2020, JamieD wrote: Jamie, I appreciate your balanced response. But that's a lot of name dropping, big name dropping. Good luck with the release, though.
There is no better freedom than choice and no better choice than freedom.
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Gary1976 New user Spain 25 Posts |
OK, this is going to be my last post on this. Please, Jamie, see my second post, just under my first one. You will see that I have, indeed watched the whole thing. Thanks.
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TheNinja New user 6 Posts |
Gary1976. Thanks for helping me to decide.
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garyogden1957 Veteran user 326 Posts |
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On May 21, 2020, TheNinja wrote: Ditto. |
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Smooth Criminal New user 42 Posts |
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On May 20, 2020, Gary1976 wrote: Of course you can, you're legally covered by the distance selling act. If Jamie doesn't refund you, commence a chargeback with your card company or PayPal. |
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patapon Regular user Malaysia 135 Posts |
So far there has been ONE purchaser (thanks Gary!), his honest comments and a lot of defending and justification by Jamie, with a sweet ending... "I stand by my product, I am hugely proud of it and I know those who invest their energy in trying this for real, will love it as much as I do."
Looking forward to hear reviews from any other purchaser who have "invested their energy in trying this for real"... |
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JamieD Inner circle London 1798 Posts |
I must admit, I am a little disheartened by how this has been handled. There has been one bad review to base your opinions on. Which is a shame but I respect the review and appreciate if it isn't for Gary. That being said, all of the points he has made, I have replied to and he has not replied to my points. He has shrugged them off. It is clear it wasn't learnt properly, or understood. The assumption made was that it wouldn't fool anyone but the performances, my personal experience and the experiences of other magicians speak otherwise. How do you know it does not work until you try it? When it was tried, it was a short while after watching the explanation (which wasn't fully understood) and without any practice. 99% of magic requires practice, if I went out after watching the instructions to something without fully running though it and understanding it, when I too would have problems with the effect. The evidence is here in the thread and those who really want to, can review this with a clear head.
IMAGINACIAN, you mentioned name dropping. Name dropping by definition is where someone highlights names of friends or celebrities, those in a prominent public position or power to make themselves seem more important or gratify themselves in someway. Non of those magicians I named were friends, I have only ever met two of them and it was brief, they do not know me personally. I was referencing those magicians and performers to illustrate and balance the point being made. They are successful magicians who all have a much bigger platform than me to deliver magic to the world. The point I was making was, all of them have used systems like one of the ones taught on the download on television and in other mediums. Just because you are not a fan of a method, it doesn't mean it doesn't work in the real world and that it shouldn't be used. So I'm afraid, no name dropping here, only referencing like an author might reference another writer in their work. In the interest of a balanced argument, here are some reviews taken from the original "Tracker" book of which VMRS is adapted: "Having gotten a sneak peek at this I can confidently say - I REALLY LIKE IT! Jamie has taken a concept that has been floating around in our collective consciousness and added a systematic approach that allows you to squeeze a lot out of very little. The core principle at play is extremely simple and direct. I've toyed with this very idea myself over the last few years prior to reading this - but Jamie has provided us with an excellently curated collection of techniques and applications which push 'the basics' into wonderful territory. The work (if you can call it that) is on you as the performer - the participants merely need to play their chosen role of Liar/Truth-teller. You only need to remember one piece of information and then you following along from there using nothing more than common sense. And yes, as Jamie states in the ad-copy, you will KNOW whether the participant(s) are lying or telling the truth. Once you lock the core concept into your mind I doubt you'll ever forget how to use it. I dare say that this is even something you could perform with confidence pretty much immediately (but I'm a proponent for rehearsal even with 'self-working' material!). Throughout, Jamie gives you several solid/clever methods (tools that help you identify if someone is lying or telling the truth) - some employ other (albeit easily justified and natural) props, and one even fits the prop-less bill. These merely scratch the surface though. I'm CERTAIN that you will quickly and easily leverage your own pet strategies to create new and interesting methods. Wonderful work Jamie!" - Drew Backenstoss "I have got to say that I'm hooked! I truly cannot wait to try these out. A masterpiece in the making. Thank you for sharing this powerful piece of mentalism, magic however you want to label it!" Mark Foster ""As someone who consumes a lot of magic and mentalism, I very rarely come across anything that stays in my head for more than 5 minutes. This, however, stuck and it's still there. It's not a trick, it's a system (a term which is wildly overused, but in this case true), and as such I've found several ways to implement it and change routines I already do, and come up with new ones. My mind is still reeling with all the possibilities, and I doubt it'll stop anytime soon. If you know me, you would know that I don't like anything, and if I say something is good, it probably means it's great, but this is great, so go figure!" - Dan Young "I’m only half way through and already this is epic!!" - Dave Loosley Of course this will not be for everyone and we have to remember that magic for video will never bye as direct as we want it to be but I like many, have had huge success with this and have enjoyed performing it. See beyond the "process" section and hopefully you will see that this is so much more than that! Invest your time in the magic and the magic will reap you the rewards you are looking for! Stay safe and spread magic! Jamie Daws
TORCE - VMRS - DARK SERIES
www.JAMIEDAWS.CO.UK |
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Gorgeous New user 77 Posts |
Is this worth getting if you already have Tracker?
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rmorrell Loyal user 262 Posts |
I bought it and have to say I disagree with Gary on his review. As Jamie has mentioned this is based on his Tracker work, I already had Tracker having purchased the booklet from Jamie a while back, why this isn't mentioned in the penguin marketing though is a mystery, maybe they wanted it like that, but I think it is a strength to highlight it. Basically if you have the Tracker booklet this will still give you ideas that are new to extend it into a virtual realm, and it is great to see the conversation between Jamie and Dee.
So yes this is tracker, but with thoughts to do this over Zoom/Skype etc. Having said that, I think not to be too impolite, but as magicians surely we can think for ourselves, and use our wealth of knowledge, my head is already buzzing with ideas of how I can use this virtually. The whole thing isn't just to run through the procedure as outlined by Gary and then tell them the number or card, that is the stepping off point, and is only a couple of examples that Jamie gives. The idea behind the whole tracker concept is you can think for yourself and come up with your own trackers or use existing things that you already do as a tracker. So if you don't like the mathematical procedure or card procedure that Jamie shows, then here is a novel idea, don't use them! Think for yourself and come up with your own, Jamie gives you these as that is what he is using, but these are just examples to highlight the bigger tool that is the tracker concept. So if I give too much away here let me know and I will edit or delete this, but just having taken five minutes to think about this, I am already going to try using the Missing Digit ploy that I remember learning from Ken De Courcy's Pentertain booklet, or it can be found in Harry Lorayne's The Magic Book, more recently brought back to us by Marc Lavelle in his At The Table lecture. So if you have a problem with what Jamie teaches, this I think for me at least makes the whole thing a little more hidden, they can generate a random number, call out the number missing out one digit and you then already have what you need to proceed with the Tracker portion. Or how about using Marc Kerstein's Xeno app, he has just updated it for remote pairing, and there is a numerology list on there, imagine that, you text or send in chat the shortlink to the list, the spectator looks it over and decides on a freely selected number, and reads the numerology description and you already have what you need to proceed with the rest of the Tracker part. There are other things in Jim Steinmeyers Impuzzibilities booklets that work with just the spectators hands to get where you need to be and I could go on. As to the card part, again just a few minutes thought got me to what might be a more comfortable solution that would still work over Zoom. But this is just the initial procedure, and that is the beauty of the Tracker, don't get bogged down in this initial part, if you don't like what Jamie shows then think about it, and come up with something to replace it, and then add that into the Tracker part of it, you get all of Jamie's wisdom of having performed this, and if you like it then it is well worth picking up the Tracker booklet as well for when we can all get back out there and do face to face shows. I hope I haven't revealed too much, as this is just talking about the initial state that you need to start the procedure, but that seems to have been the sticking point to the initial reviews, but to me they seem to have missed the point, in that you can do anything to get what you need, it is the concept of applying that knowledge to what follows that really is what Jamie has brought to the table and made such a simple idea into a layered concept that can be used without props. I really liked the ideas Jamie shared of making this concept work with multiple people as well, and all to end on a confabulation type prediction, again with minimal or no props needed on the performer or spectator side. I think if you don't get too hung up on the initial procedure and see this for what it is, the PDF that comes with it is extracts from the Tracker booklet, along with new information in order to help you do this virtually, I still think if you like the concept it is worth picking up the full booklet from Jamie. I for one am totally happy with my purchase even though I had already bought Tracker and as I said at the start my head is buzzing with ways that I can do this virtually, not just the ways that Jamie teaches! |
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JamieD Inner circle London 1798 Posts |
Rmorrell, firstly thank you for taking the time to write that! That is a great review, mainly because of its balanced! And, put far more eloquently than I could put it! But you hit the nail on the head! It is about the possibilities it opens and is far more than that tiny part of the effect! So thank you for taking the time and approaching it with an informative and balanced view point!
I was performing this for some magicians last night and as always, they were fooled! The psychology built into this effect is what makes it so powerful, this has been thought and re-thought. Worked and re-worked to make it a very powerful concept which works not only over video but also in the real world. There was also a repose to Gary's review from another performer who has purchased the download and is found under the product on the review section: "I don't know how someone would give such a bad review and not finish the video. I performed this exactly as in trailer and my own variations, this hits hard everytime and I'm really enjoying this. This is not like Tequila Hustler. You are truly figuring out and tracking if they are lying or telling the truth, the method is completely invisible to the spectator. I highly recommend this. if you fail at this then your doing something wrong" - jayman10454 So thank you again to those trying this out and getting great reactions from other spectators! I have also opened a VMRS page on Facebook. Search VRMS IDEAS. There is a great Rock, Paper, Scissors routine posted in there already! Jamie Daws
TORCE - VMRS - DARK SERIES
www.JAMIEDAWS.CO.UK |
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rmorrell Loyal user 262 Posts |
You're welcome. I just think it didn't deserve the dismissal it got but maybe because I have been working with the original Tracker I can see the power it has as a jumping off point and it makes it so much easier and surefire than some of the logic puzzle style methods, plus it is so versatile in that you can use just about anything to get that jumping off point, which is what I think was missed here.
For me the touch of using this with multiple spectators was worth the price of the download (I don't think this was covered in the booklet unless I missed it) such a simple idea but again such a great little touch. Thanks for your work on this and I look forward to chiming in on the facebook group! |
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DavidMac New user Stafford, UK 80 Posts |
My thoughts...
I bought VMRS before any reviews as I'm a fan of Jamie's work and find his visual and written teaching style easy to follow. Whilst the video downloaded I had a scan through the additional pdf. A wave of disappointment came over me when I saw images and descriptions which matched some content of the The Tracker book (which I had purchased earlier in the year), my disappointment meant I only cast my eyes through the document and didn't digest the content as I was keen to get started on the video to see if my disappointment was valid. I was worried that I wasn't going to learn anything that wasn't covered in the book. However, Jamie is very good at taking a concept and building on it, often making you think why didn't I think of that. My disappointment soon faded as Jamie explained how the concept could be applied to virtual meeting presentations and that's when my light bulb moment happened. The video itself is made up of recorded performances of Jamie performing online 1 on 1 or for a couple via video call and, I'd describe it as, teaching through conversation with Dee Christopher (big fan of Dee's work too) again via video call - we get so used to the high quality, HD, over produced videos it can catch you off guard when you start watching something that isn't a studio filmed converstion with people sat next too each other (remember those days...). In the UK we are still in lockdown and have been for 8+ weeks. The video works, tells you what you need to know and given the circumstances I think Jamie has done a good job of giving us the opportunity to perform something for friends, family, colleagues and those that are performing online shows over skype, zoom, Teams etc. Some of the information is glossed over (re dice) but rewatching and thinking about it logically it will make sense. There's a bit towards the end of the video where Dee references something to clarify an earlier point but I feel it's been put in the wrong place and should have been cut in nearer the point he is referring to. Overall, as the owner of The Tracker, VMRS does feel like an add on and as a result I feel is slightly overpriced for what you get. I may have held off on the purchase until the reviews came in had The Tracker been mentioned. I'm also disappointed that my favourite routine from the book is discussed in the video and included in the pdf - but that's just me. Would I be disappointed as a new purchaser? I don't think I would. As an owner of The Tracker would I use anything taught in VMRS? Yes, and therefore it's a worthwhile purchase for me. I'm looking forward to trying it out with my colleagues over MS Teams over the coming weeks. Thank you Jamie for bringing this out, I appreciate the work any creator is putting out at the moment to allow us as performers to take our art in a new direction and challenging us to think about how we can still entertain in the current environment. |
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JamieD Inner circle London 1798 Posts |
DavidMac, thank you for the great review! Once again, brilliantly balanced! I did hope those who had 'The Tracker' would find some value in VMRS as well as it really is an extension of the book!
Please do't forget to pop a review under the product on penguins website! I appreciate all of the time you guys are putting into writing these reviews and they are amazing! Also remember to join the Facebook group for more ideas! Jamie Daws
TORCE - VMRS - DARK SERIES
www.JAMIEDAWS.CO.UK |
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IMAGINACIAN Special user In Your Thots 558 Posts |
I dunno why I got this. Probably I was guilty of basing my decision on just one bad review. But after watching and reading everything, I'm disappointed. I wanted this to be good.
Frankly, it felt like I just sat thru an hour long math class - a boring one at that. The explained processes are convoluted. After about 5 minutes of add this, multiply this, again add this, imagine you are either lying or telling truth etc of huffing and puffing process, you finally reveal which hand the spec is holding an imaginary coin in...phew!! And then shockingly, in the name of a 'kicker in the teeth' you simply give away the method (albeit a flimsy one) by revealing the force card or force number. C'mon there are far better and far too many almost direct which hand routines out there. I would definitely not be using this method, no way. And the bit where this is performed on a couple and the result mapped to a list of 100 places - is still longer process - more math with subtract this, add this etc kind of stuff. And I didn't know that in magic, when a performer forces a card on a spec and later reveals it in a lop sided, roundabout (it is called innovative over here) manner, it is a 'new concept' called Tracker. Seriously? I mean, is EVERY magic trick not about the spec not knowing what the magician knows and the magician playing with that? The convoluted processes give the specs ample opportunities to actually mess up. The young spec towards the end actually seemed stumped by the barrage of instructions and even drops the cards. The spec needs to hold several bits of info in mind while following instructions. It was also a revelation to me that this bit of scripting "Even you didn't know that you would be thinking of this number" was really clever and original to Jamie. And poor Dee Christopher was a real sport and bravely sat through the whole math class with a smile on the face. I like his work, though. The audio and video quality was good enough. The included pdf is helpful. And Jamie is a nice likeable bloke. Those are just about the good points I can think of about this release.
There is no better freedom than choice and no better choice than freedom.
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rmorrell Loyal user 262 Posts |
Imaginacian, did you read my review? I think again respectfully you have missed the point, I might have to go back and rewatch but I wonder if people aren't grasping the tracker idea from this download. I have read the full tracker manuscript so already had an idea of the concept so maybe that is colouring my thoughts.
The point is that the maths process or forcing a card isn't the end result, and if you don't like those processes, then change them for literally anything you already do, as in my examples that I gave above. I happen to think yes there are better ways to get there than Jamie shows, but at least he gives you options to use this virtually. In the Tracker booklet there are some great ways to do this in person, the maths process just happens to be used to allow this to happen virtually, but again there are virtual ways you can get into this that are better than what is shown. The whole point is that the tracker concept isn't force a card and then reveal it, to be honest I wouldn't even bother revealing the card or number, but that is just my preference. The point is, to use what that knowledge gives you, the spectator doesn't know you know, and then you can use that information to literally ask anything, the coin in hand is just again one example, you can ask any question you like and know if they are lying or telling the truth. Usually for these kind of propless liar/truth teller things you have to use a logic puzzle and that can get complicated, what Jamie has done is added in a sure-fire way of 'tracking' this hence the name but again to just reveal the card or number is NOT the point at all, and you can replace the maths or force with literally anything! |
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IMAGINACIAN Special user In Your Thots 558 Posts |
Sorry rmorrell, respectfully disagree.
If I cannot use the forces or ideas in this download, and have to do with my own along with tracker, then why this download in the first place? At best this could have been one or max two foot notes that too in very fine print in his tracker work. And even Tracker is just a s*xy name for a standard procedure. Frankly, imo. Sorry Jamie.
There is no better freedom than choice and no better choice than freedom.
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dyoung Special user 898 Posts |
Hi Imaginician! As someone who has been using Tracker for all manner of things, I'm curious when you say its just a sexy name for a standard procedure. Where else can I find resources on this effect? I always like researching effects that Im doing and to see if other creators have a slightly different touch.
Hope you can help! All the best, Dan |
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