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Mr. Mindbender Inner circle 1566 Posts |
Well...the presentation I outlined above isn't about showing off.
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Doug Trouten Elite user Minnesota 471 Posts |
You're exactly right. Mr. Mindbender. The presentation you outlined is a great example of the kind of thing I'm asking about. Thanks for sharing it -- perhaps reading it is what sparked my question. (Who really knows how our minds work, right?)
It's still magic even if you know how it's done.
Terry Pratchett |
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Keith Raygor Special user Naples, FL 968 Posts |
That is exactly the brilliance of the aforementioned Subliminal Squares by Dr. Bill. It removes the attention on the performer and places it squarely on the spectator. It highlights their ability and puts them in the spotlight in a very positive way.
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SolidSnake Special user 534 Posts |
Don't know if this has been tried but was thinking about the audience calling out numbers that the performer then writes down and makes his square. Like Chan Canasta did with words.
There is no holy grail!
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DocBenWiz Special user Meridian, Idaho 992 Posts |
Q[quote]On Jul 29, 2015, djtrouten wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 13, 2015, David Thiel wrote: David, I agree that a magic squares routine can convey the message "Look how smart I am" or "Look how good my memory is" or "Look how good I am at math." Some people have the personality to pull off that kind of approach. Some don't. A number of people have shared their presentations for magic squares in this thread. I'd love to hear ideas for presentations that address David's point about "showing off." There is something to be said for the premise of demonstrating the "power of the mind" that could be learned by most people, as Harry Lorayne often proposed when demonstrating his memory work. As for worries about showing off, Harry Lorayne's career would have been quite different wouldn't it, if he had gone on Johnny Carson's show and performed a demo in which 250 people in the audience stand up...and THEY call off their names correctly to Mr Lorayne? ergo: Harry tomthe 250 people standing, "Please sit down as soon as you have callled off your name correctly"...! (followed by wild applause...?)
"Pay no attention to that strange man behind the curtain" (it's only "Doc Benjamin from the Amazing Wizardelia Wagon")
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Paul Brook Special user UK 855 Posts |
Do people like a MS?
It's hard to generalise about an audience in this way. I've seen performers who completely flop with a MS routine and I have seen those who bring the roof down with it. As with a lot of mentalism the strength is in how the performer is able to deliver the effect and make it into something very entertaining. For me, the MS routines that I've seen (and used) that get the best response are ones where the performer isn't showing off but instead incorporates the MS into another routine. I have a routine that incorporates the MS in a way that the audience are not even aware they are watching a MS. Another version I've seen is where the performer is trying to use the MS to generate random numbers that keep coming out the same and the performer ends up vexed by this (instead of being smug). Getting on stage and saying, "This line, this line, this line, this line, this line, this line, this line, this line..." ad infinitum isn't just repetitive but theatrically boring. Moving away from that as much as possible and changing the focus from the performer being correct, tadaaaaaa, is in my opinion where a solid MS routine can be found. So, "Do people like MS?" Could well be paraphrased as: "Do people like hammers?" Sure they do, when they need nailing, but not when it comes to screwing!!! Point is the MS is a tool in my eyes and not a finished routine. Warm Regards, Paul
PAUL BROOK
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
I mentioned the way that I actually perform the magic square, earlier in this thread; but I once came up with a different comedy idea for presentation that I posted here a long time ago. Feel free to use it if it's your style. Here it is again for your convenience:
Quote: "When it comes to math I'm a real dunce. I got sent to my headmaster for not doing my homework. He made me do all these sums . . . I was so nervous I kept answering 34, no matter what problem he showed me . . .They used the cane in those days and every time I said 34 I got caned; I couldn't help myself I was so nervous. But then his lovely secretary said, 'such a smart boy, every problem right' . . . And by God, maybe I was!"
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
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RogerTheShrubber Veteran user 301 Posts |
Speaking only for myself, I have no interest in magic squares. I memorized the one used and taught by Joshua Jay and Paul Zenon (The Amazing Allison used it on Penn and Teller: Fool Us) just in case I was ever asked for one from my kids, their friends or their friends' parents, but never had to use it. And when my kids saw it on Penn and Teller's show on Monday (hopefully saving me from ever having to perform one), they had less than no interest and didn't say a word about it. All they wanted to know is how the second half of the trick (Allison matching Teller's drawing) was done.
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mtgoldstein Veteran user Houston, TX 325 Posts |
Look, in the end the MS is just a amazingly curious mathematical combination. if that's your only angle that's all it will ever be. It's all in the presentation that breaths life. Be it story telling, a mental warm up exercise, or disguised as part of some other presentation that evolves the Square. The works of Lorayne, Dyment, Cushman, provide so much to work from. Various presentations from Archer to Anderson can be reviewed on video. One can even present it as a card trick with 'The Grid' that is the same, yet surpases, every "pick a card" trick you've ever done. But if it's not that interesting to the performer it never will be to the audience. The fact that it's just an easily searchable math oddity is irrevalent. There are chapters and chapters written on "math magic" all just interesting oddities and short cuts.
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
Lots of "interesting oddities" in MATHEMATICAL WIZARDRY. Hah!
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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mtgoldstein Veteran user Houston, TX 325 Posts |
Hi Harry, Great to hear from you. I hope all is well with you. Eagerly looking forward to your next book. He He "interesting oddities"
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Doug Trouten Elite user Minnesota 471 Posts |
I'm watching the lecture Harry Anderson did for Penguin Magic, and he has some good stuff about magic squares. He wanted to do the trick, but had a number of presentational problems with it, and he runs through the solutions he found for those problems. There's some good thinking there.
It's still magic even if you know how it's done.
Terry Pratchett |
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kylebyrne New user 6 Posts |
Do you guys think that maybe the general publics opinion on maths could affect how they see a magic square performance. For example as a maths student at university when I perform for my peers they accept the trick very well as they maybe understand more the difficulty, whereas if I perform for those without such an affinity for maths they find the trick less appealing.
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Bill Cushman Inner circle Florida 2876 Posts |
I've seen Alain Nu thoroughly entertain an auditorium full of students at a college with his magic square. And I've seen a talented magician close his set at a swanky nightclub/restaurant with a magic square and get equally strong reactions. I think this is more about the performer and the presentation than the effect itself.
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Doug Trouten Elite user Minnesota 471 Posts |
Kyle, I think the audience perception of math is definitely a factor (although I believe Bill is exactly right when he says the performer and presentation are the main variables). Some people have just decided that they are bad at math, and for them every math problem is equally impossible, whether it's a magic square, a quadratic equation, or calculating a percentage change. For this kind of person, the magic square isn't entertaining -- it's one more reminder of their own math deficiencies. One of the thing I like about Harry Anderson's presentation was that he uses a big sheet of paper folded up to make 16 squares, and then he can show one row or column at a time, making it easier to see how each part works. At the end he tears the big sheet into four smaller ones, each with four squares that add up to the target number, and again it's easier for the math-averse to to the math.
It's still magic even if you know how it's done.
Terry Pratchett |
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ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2499 Posts |
Bill Cushman wrote
Quote:
I think this is more about the performer and the presentation than the effect itself. I agree. And not just with respect to this effect, but for every effect! djtrouten wrote Quote:
Some people have just decided that they are bad at math ... For this kind of person, the magic square isn't entertaining -- it's one more reminder of their own math deficiencies. I disagree. Many people are bad at math, and if the above claim were true, then when a competent entertainer presented a magic square effect, many of them would not find it entertaining. But we know that this is not the case. I have seen world-class mentalists open their acts, to audiences of many hundreds (even thousands) with a magic square, to huge effect. It is simply incorrect to say that those audience members who were math-deficient did not find it entertaining. The magic square is a classic of mentalism for good reason. Whenever one performs such a classic, and the audience is not thoroughly entertained, it's a pretty good clue that the fault does not lie with the classic. But far too many would-be entertainers would rather chase the elusive "perfect effect" than give much thought (or expend much effort) to the art of performance.
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
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