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Socrates Regular user 197 Posts |
There are many ways of taking self-working tricks and using them within your mentalism , however you need a great script, and all magic requires thought about the best possible way of presenting it. Even a puzzle can turned be turned into a great piece of mentalism if you know how to draw an audience in, and that is done using words.
"Don't try to figure out what other people want to hear from you; figure out what you have to say. It's the one and only thing you have to offer" Barbara Kingsolver |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
This thread makes me ponder on what most Mentalists consider to "sleights." Certainly the OP is concerned with physical use of the hands as a dexterity issue.
But generally, a sleight is "dexterity or cunning, usually with the intent to deceive." SO, I think most would consider a center-tear to be a sleight, but what about handling a change or force bag? "Out to Lunch" principle? Making chairs for secret recognition? More importantly, perhaps is the element of deceit. When you perform as a Mentalist, is your intent to educate, enlighten or deceive? (other?) Yeah, I know - you just want to entertain for pay. But, how does the audience perceive what you are doing? At what point does a secret action or use of secret knowledge become a sleight? or does a secret physical action become NOT a sleight because your heart is pure? It may not matter except for clarity of writing or communication amoungts us thieves, but the perception of "deception" suddenly has me reviewed many effects/story lines I use.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Dylenium New user 52 Posts |
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On Sep 29, 2020, funsway wrote: I never actually thought about that but its a very important question to ask myself. I just realised that I often choose an educating type of presentation, maybe because this takes some heat of me since I am just displaying something I found interesting. |
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MC Mirak Regular user 190 Posts |
The OP was pretty clear in terms of talking about sleight of hand as he was referring to his hands and how they can shake, etc.
As I age and have start to think about and deal with things like arthritis and, of course, dry hands, I often consider my use of sleight of hand (as opposed to sleight of mind or sleight of mouth, as espoused by some of the authors in our field). The other things noted above, aside from the center tear, tend to fall into the self-working or gimmick category, not sleights in any case. For me, as I experiment with different arthritis treatments, I've moved into simplifying things I already do, which is what my recommendation to the OP will revolve around: Go through the effects you really like and understand why the sleight is employed. Then think of all the other ways that other effects accomplish the same goal. An example might help: You want to switch a billet but your hands shake. What are other options? We're in an open forum so I have to be careful. Think of how magicians switch silks from red to green or even make a silk disappear, TTs. Now apply that to this, you put a billet in your hand, open your hand and there it is (but a switch has occurred). You could employ something that "pulls" as in a p#ll, to get the same effect. Is this sleight of hand? I'll let others argue the point but I would say not really. Leverage what magicians have done, what spiritualists did in the past, and you'll find alternatives. They aren't always better, mind you, but that's the thinking I would employ: take effects you like and figure out alternative methods to accomplish the same thing, then evaluate which method is better for you. |
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Dylenium New user 52 Posts |
I just wrote my opinions on the "Safwan Papers" in another thread but for complement I wanted to write about it here too. If someone else searches for strong, sleight free mentalism, the "Safwan Papers" are a great resource. I just perfomed two routines today and they went over very well. Right now it is for sale, so if you don't have it already you should definetly buy it!
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Dylenium New user 52 Posts |
So if others read that with similar problems, I just found that video of Peter Turner giving advice on shaking hands and performance anxiety, most of the things have already been said but theres still good advice in it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiHBfjzxZ6Y It starts at about 10:00
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David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts |
I can relate to the whole notion of stage fright. More like stage TERROR, I think.
I became a full time perform in 1990 and did very well with it, steadily building corporate clients for a decade. At that time I was doing comedy magic. Around 1999...and into 2000 for reasons I still do not understand, the nerves I felt before a show morphed into something approaching terror. A few days before a show I would get crabby. On the day of the show I would be as close to a hot mess as is possible for a guy who still finds his way onto a stage.I mean it was BAD! All I could think of was the many eyes looking at me. Up until I stepped onto the stage I would be moving through progressive waves of fear. When I got onto the stage and started performing I evened out and the shows went really well. I would step off the stage and experience that "ahhhh" feeling of a delighted audience and a happy client for a few minutes, until I thought about the next show I had booked...and the process would start all over again. It was no way to live. Clients and audiences had no idea what I went through as show day approached. My family did. It got so bad that for over a year I turned down all adult shows and ONLY did children and family events. Oddly enough -- even when I was on a grandstand in front of really large audiences -- I felt no nerves at all. I was completely comfortable. But I'd built my career on adult events -- and all performers know that the money is there. So after a fourteen month sabbatical I told myself to suck it up and get back to the adult audiences. So I did. And the whole process started all over again. It was, in fact worse than ever. I tried to figure it out. My shows always got great reactions. Lots of laughter -- for the right reasons. Clients were delighted. I was getting lots of bookings. Only I knew how awful the stage fright would get. I was always prepared. I was a great performer. (Honest.) SO...what??? I decided it was going to be part of my process...and that was that. So I toughed it out for years. I came to mentalism hard around 2007...I mean I fell in LOVE with mentalism. I started to transition from magic to mentalism. I did it very slowly so I would be able to keep my client base -- which had steadily grown. (I explain this process in "The Marketing Minded Mentalist.") Along the way, Bob Cassidy became my teacher...and then a very close friend. In one of our conversations, I let down my guard and told him about my stage terror. He wrote: "The most important thing is to be thoroughly prepared. Master your methods to the point where you don't need to think about them. Don't refer to those feelings as fear. Think of them as excitement and anticipation. Stay focused on the task at hand and trust yourself to do a good job. Realize that it's a only a show after all, and not a combat mission. Remember that the stage is YOUR office, YOUR turf, YOUR home. Love your audience and remind yourself how much you love them before you take the stage. And finally remember that performing is an exhilarating experience and not a test. Performing is FUN, so remember to enjoy yourself and let that enjoyment show. And ALWAYS check your fly." That's why he was my friend. After I thought through every word -- memorized them, really...my stage fright disappeared. Poof! Now I get anticipation...but I can hardly wait to climb onto that stage. Hopefully that helps a little. As for what to perform? Study cold re*ding and body language. You will always be prepared that way. David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
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Dylenium New user 52 Posts |
First I thought your advice seemed a bit obvious "Just memorize what you want to say". But I the more I think about it, I realize that its not the same if you just know what you want to say or if you really learned it by heart. I think I will start writing actual scripts even for the unformal presentations I give and look if that helps.
And by the way, thank you for always taking you time and writing detailed, well written answers! I think especially the newbies get a real value from that. |
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mindhunter Inner circle Upstate NY 2280 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 30, 2020, Dylenium wrote: Just saw this, so thank you very much! Which two effects did you perform if I may ask? (yes, I have both eBooks on "pandemic-zombie-apocalypse" sale in my signature below.) Bryn
Bryn D. Reynolds, Author of:
"The Safwan Papers" & "The LOGAR Scrolls" Mentalism ebooks - PM any interest. My artwork: https://darkmountainarts.com |
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Dylenium New user 52 Posts |
Hi,
I performed Seven, which went technically well, but my spectator thought I just got lucky. So the method is definetly good but I have to figure out how to present it better. The second one was Bottle Cap koran but with matchboxes and that went over great. A good exercise on how to be bold wihtout risk! Dylan |
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MC Mirak Regular user 190 Posts |
I have an effect where I write a 5-digit number on each of 4 cards (which can be inspected but I generally didn't do that). The spectators build a 6 digit number together and when the numbers on the cards are added up, they add up to the number generated by the audience.
I thought by only using 5 cards (the 4 with numbers I write first, then one with the number from the audience) that it would be clear. However, when I first started performing this effect, almost universally the first response after they added up the numbers and saw they "predicted" them was "WTF?!" followed almost immediately by "I must have missed something." Which is indeed disheartening. I thought I had eliminated all of the usual issues with effects of this type (hidden numbers, extra cards, not being able to show both sides of the cards, funny things popping up on their calculator when they are doing the math, me ever touching their calculator, etc.). Which made it even more frustrating. What it turned out to be was I needed them to buy into the premise before the end. That is to say, if you get them to agree everything was fair, that luck can happen but for it to actually occur here would be truly mind-blowing, etc. It's just a couple more lines of dialog in my script but it, without exaggeration, completely changed the responses I started getting. TL/DR: Definitely work on your scripting to, psychologically, set people up prior to the end. I thought I was doing this already but the responses I got showed me that I was totally wrong. Sadly, I haven't performed this effect in over 6 months. While it is workable on Zoom, it really benefits from how clean everything is and Zoom, for all that it can do, does have flaws for tricks like this (where you do have to pick up the cards so you can write on them, as opposed to an Ultra Mental deck that can be untouched until you reveal a card). |
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Dylenium New user 52 Posts |
This is definetly something to consider. With that specific effect (Seven) its is kind of hard to do because it does make the effect way more difficult to succeed if the spectator knows the premise before the end (The routine isn't 100% but almost). Something I usually do is to give a fake explanation for the effect that I am presenting, this also works well against the "You were just lucky" explanation.
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MC Mirak Regular user 190 Posts |
I started doing Seven from The Safwan Papers back in 2015 and I did an earlier version from Kenton Knepper starting around 2004 or 2005 I think (can't remember the exact source so more than likely it was from one of the Killer Konceptions approaches, actually I'm thinking the invisible cards routine from Wonder Words?), so I understand what you're saying. I guess I wasn't clear in my post and it is tough to clarify without exposure.
Obviously, you can't be totally clear in some parts because you need to rely on the ambiguity as part of the method. However, the presentational approach used is what is I am referring to here. What are you having them do? In another one of Kenton's releases, he gives some great advice around how you frame an effect, especially an effect like this one. Below is a poor example but I think it is relatively exposure free: "Two of the most interesting topics in the world are free choice and randomness. Free choice is something we all take for granted every day. Well, maybe not some philosophy scholars but us normies at least. Randomness is something that, arguably, impacts our day to day lives potentially even more: does that car's brakes fail, is my online purchase secure? In fact, randomness impacts how we make our decisions. Today, I want to try something with you. You're going to make some choices, at random ideally, and we'll do our best so it really is random. Or is it just a free choice on your part? It's a serious question that will HAUNT YOU TO YOUR GRAVE!!! Here, take this imaginary..." So then you get to the end. "Would you say your choices were more random or free choice?" LISTEN to the answer and respond appropriately, let's imagine they say random: "Exactly. And the entire point of being random is that you can't predict it, it's something that comes and goes as easily as dealing one card or saying red instead of black..." (these are just examples) "But, enough of that. Random choices. We can even take it further, random FREE choices, right?" So, again, this is getting them to buy into the whole premise BEFORE the denouement. I think it would hit harder. Quick hits: - this reads long but I would incorporate these comments into phases of the routine (not all at once, and you can play some phases much stronger than others) - I know this isn't the best script but I think it is relatively spoiler free - This is just my type of approach and what I have found works for me. Your mileage may vary. - Let us know if you do figure out an approach that works well for you. MC |
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ltrblst Loyal user 226 Posts |
I have Self Working Mental Magic by Karl Fulves and I kind of like it.
However in mentalism the presentation is so important, and in self working effects even more. Would you suggest some DVD/video resources for self working / sleight free / sleight light mentalism as well? |
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MC Mirak Regular user 190 Posts |
The Fulves book is great (all of his works are, actually), if a bit dated.
But you get back to the meaning behind self-working and sleight-free. Unless I am misremembering, in the second effect in the book, you have to ring in an extra coin. I'm not sure I would qualify that as either self-working or sleight-free. That's why this is such a hard discussion. That being said, I love Destination Zero (the book) by John Bannon: https://www.bannonmagic.com/destination-zero I haven't bought any of the Move Zero DVDs but I am sure they are great as well. |
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Dylenium New user 52 Posts |
Thanks MC for the presentation Idea, I think this would indeed work well.
As for the Karl Fulves Book, I bought it recently and I like it. I probably wont take many things as they are out of the book but some principals are really good and can work well with a good presentation. |
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Haruspex New user 62 Posts |
Many of the classics of mentalism would fit your demand. Whether you're performing a name reveal, chair routine, book test, add a number etc.
When it comes to more "sleight heavy" work like billet work of metal bending, often the problem with nerves starts because you, yourself label the action you need to do as a sleight. By doing so you will automatically get more tense and this results in nerves. I think its Max Maven who mentions, as he explains an effect on one of his DVD's: "don't make a move out of it, just do it with conviction and attitude" |
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