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Socrates Regular user 197 Posts |
A lot of Bizarre magic seems to be based around the occult - does this have to be the case? I've heard some use shamanic presentations, and perhaps things like the Da Vinci code may inspire others. Do folk use Christianity, or paganism in their shows? Just being curious, as this field of the bizarre seems so curious to me. Cannot wait to read your thoughts.
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topherhester Loyal user 295 Posts |
I think bizarre embodies storytelling magic. If you look at some of the great storytellers from bizarre (Ed Solomon, Borodin, Chelman, Magus, Eugene Burger, Mary Tomich... there’s honestly too many to list), you’ll see a wide range of subjects, influences, and topics.
If we always look at bizarre as all occult related, we’ll get stuck in a box and never come up with new presentations. Yes, a majority will fall into the occult category because laymen usually find it either fascinating or taboo.. but I hope bizarre magic continues to look for new inspiration for presentational strategies. |
Socrates Regular user 197 Posts |
Christian Chelman has some great material. Just re-reading his Oct 2007 articles from Magic and Genii magazines, lots of food for thought there. It seems the story element is key to bizarre performances. All of the performers you mentioned have different approaches to the art of magic, and each one can be inspirational to those looking to learn. It seems the occult suits a lot of folk, and it definitely appeals to the general public as you pointed out.
Are you an occult performer, or do you take an alternative route to the bizarre? Hooray, the coin finally spins for all to see! |
Winks Special user Arizona 753 Posts |
I steer away from the occult but I do lean to the stranger than fiction side of things. Any of you who read Frank Edwards books from the 60s should have a pretty good idea what I mean. I find the suspension of disbelief much easier when the emphasis is on true weird events that I can twist (the Bermuda Triangle comes to mind - I did this one as a stage presentation rather than close up from the book Pentalogy at the most recent ECSS Screaming Goat competition and had a lot of fun with it) rather than ghosts and demons and such. But that's just me and your take may go in a different direction. I find it is much spookier for people when the foundation is reality rather than fantasy.
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
I would call what I do more esoteric than occult, personally.
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 2149 Posts |
I was just rereading the 4th Big Black Book by Black Hart last night and it includes an essay about what bizarre magic is. I’m too lazy to quote directly from the book, but the phrase that sticks in my head is magic presented as real. So there’s no reason you can’t use any framework you like that allows for a presentation as “real.” I suspect most occult presentations are written that way because it is a highly accessible view of “real magic,” more than because the performers want everyone to think they are Devil worshippers.
That said, Pentalogy is one of my favorite books and the material ranges from the occult to the silly. But it all conveys a story. So personally I like a definition that encompasses the idea that “bizarre” magic is a more immersive way to perform. A presentation of tricks as something more than tricks. But I can’t really find the words that I feel would really say it right. Patrick |
TEB3 Veteran user Texas 387 Posts |
NO! That's why all of the 7 books I've written are based on spooky/ghostly/scarey storytelling themes but not Occult. The latest one, APPARITIONS, teaches how to convince people they have seen a ghost. Plus you don't have to worry about getting burned at the stake or arresested for running a scam church.
Available from Stevens Magic or wackadu.com |
Winks Special user Arizona 753 Posts |
I fail to see the difference between the occult and twaching people they have seen a ghost. How is that other than occult?
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Merlinsmagic Inner circle Daly City, CA 1606 Posts |
Bizarre is twaching people into believing they saw or experienced a ghost/spirit activity, occult is attempting to conjuring up a ghost/spirit(s) thru incantations or a ritual & twaching people into believing it worked....(?) LoL
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Socrates Regular user 197 Posts |
There's always someone advertising their books in threads nowadays - TEB3 in this case. The forums were much better in the early days, back then magicians really were helping magicians... perhaps now the banner should say 'Magicians Marketing Magicians"
On the plus side there are some great responses here, thanks guys. Like yourselves I believe that we can perform without having to rely on the occult, or even the esoteric, Winks and topherhester suggest some other ways of approaching performances, which sound cool. Thanks for your thoughts so far! |
Winks Special user Arizona 753 Posts |
Twaching...a bizarre way of teaching.
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ManxBull Regular user Isle of Man 116 Posts |
There are a lot of terms to be defined here, and I can guarantee that nearly everyone on this forum would define them a different way. What is 'occult'? Is it witchcraft or demonology? Does it include psychic research and the paranormal? Are ghosts to be considered occult or a mysterious phenomenon? What about folklore and fairy tales? There are a large number of bizarre effects which concern murders rather than the occult, as the 'true crime' market is huge. However, is it 'occult' the way the spectator is able to reveal the solution to the effect? There are effects which have no connection to the occult at all, such as Lothar Malmberg's 'Memory Box' or Jamie Daws' 'Love & War'. But is the revelation, with its paranormal hints of the persistence of memory, 'occult'? There are people out there who will tell you that even sponge balls or card magic are perilously close to 'meddling in the occult'.
It seems to me that a lot depends on how we present ourselves. Some folks like to present themselves as 'real' and their magic as 'real. Fair dos if that works for you. I don't. I present myself as a storyteller and a folklorist. I tell people stories and I do it *** well, using all the charisma I have to enthrall them in my tales, which are illustrated, often remarkably, with magical effects. They are drawn in and held spellbound and are astonished by the effects. But they are never left under any illusion that what they have seen and taken part in is 'real'. It is an entertainment, a tale, they know that the marvels are smoke and mirrors. If I'm telling them a tale of sorcery or devilry, it's a tale from folklore that they're experiencing in an interactive medium. No one goes away feeling that they have been present in an occult experience, though they have all been thoroughly entertained and enchanted. So a lot of the answer depends upon your chosen presentation. You can take any effect and present it as if it were an 'occult' experience, playing the trickery as an authentic exposure to the supernatural. Or you can take any occult-themed effect and present it as an enthralling story or piece of history or folklore complete with convincing legerdemain. That choice is wholly in your own hands as the performer and what you choose to lead your audience to believe. |
Merlinsmagic Inner circle Daly City, CA 1606 Posts |
Very welll said Manxbull !! You've said it best I could consider as an explanation of, imo.
I personally love the storytelling & folklore within a paranormal feeling, I don't care in trying to present myself as an occultist or being anythong close to that. Even the term bizarrist to me, I get people referencing to Chris Angel which I'm not like nor wish to be like. Storyteller of curious wonders, the weird & possibly paranormal in nature works best for me. To present an effect as a curiousity or mystery & let the spec(s) convince me of its paranormal like nature or connection I enjoy going with rather than me convincing them of..... |
Al Desmond Inner circle Secret Mountain Lair in Conifer, Co 1511 Posts |
Any one have an idea what Christian Chelman's book "Hauntiques" is worth.
Good condition, dust cover. |
weepinwil Inner circle USA 3828 Posts |
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On Nov 3, 2020, Merlinsmagic wrote: You present yourself as what your character is. Not necessarily occult.
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
The word OCCULT means hidden knowledge to me ... So why avoid it?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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gothicmagic Inner circle Ubiquitous 1374 Posts |
For me it all decides on the mythos/persona /character you will be presenting/performing as,
I'm a Vampire so objects may be odd or have a history to tell "but in performance, they aren't Occult to me" , the framing is key or "The Media is the message" you may be a historian and have no knowledge of the objects power , except in the civilization that created it , etc... be your own Bradbury,Bloch,Barker, or Stoker find your own Mythos and flourish
Vlad ^0^
One of The Founding Fathers of The East Coast Spirit Sessions & Co Producer of Bizarre hauntings ECSS I,II,III,IV,V,VI Order of the Hexidic |
RCP Inner circle Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas 2183 Posts |
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On Nov 3, 2020, Al Desmond wrote: $250.00 |
RCP Inner circle Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas 2183 Posts |
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On Nov 2, 2020, Socrates wrote: OCCULT=supernatural, mystical, or magical beliefs, practices, or phenomena What are you trying to accomplish? |
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