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Eddini_81976 Inner circle 2183 Posts |
I admit, my main forte is street performing. I'm getting into doing kid's B-Day parties. I mean I've done a few already. But here is a list "Routine" that I did for a rescent party. The party went over well. My problem is, is that I don't drive, (I've NEVER owned a car in my life, although I do keep my liscence up to date). To me it's very embarressing as a performer to ask to be picked up and dropped off. A friend said that work is better than no work. I'm very bad business wise. I want to get an agent or manager eventually. I never know what to charge. I'm always afraid of charging too much and getting turned down. I've been told that I under sell myself. Anyway I told this guy I usually charge $100.00 a show plus balloon animals for the kids afterwards, but I'd charge him $75.00 if he could pick me up, and drop me off. Oh yes I need advice on charging and so on too. Anyway his daughter turned 9. The kids were around that age. Now I don't have a lot of "big props" (Square Circle, Mirror box...ect), nor do I work with animals. So here's the show (Tricks I did). And yes I have my list in a hidden place as I perform. My magic is kind of a fast pace kind, but I DO joke, and have fun too.
1. Hang 'em' High 2. Silk from "empty" popcorn box. 3. I vanish the silk via T.T., then produce it from a previously shown empty pocket. 4. Red Hot Mamma 5. Scotch & Soda 6. Mental Photography Deck 7. Professor's Nightmare 8. MacDonald's Aces 9. Super Sonic 10. Cut 'N' Restored Rope 11. A 3-Card Location finding each card in a different way. 12. The Coloring Book 13. The Mysterious Red Ball, (Which is just part of the stratosphere trick, the plastic clear tube is ruined. So I just show the box empty, produce the ball, then I vanish it again). 14. Production of Hankerchief from the Lewiscone. 15. I then use that hankerchief, for the lock bill tube trick. 16. MisMade Flag with changebag 17. Ambitious Card, with Card to Mullica Wallet 18. Silk Production from empty box. (The exact name of the box is called the "The Glass of Water Production Box" I think, or water casket or something). 19. Thumbcuff Escape with comedy bits, "Finale" The kids really thoroughly as well as the adults loved the show. At the end I even produced a "Peds Dispencer, & Candy" from an empty changebag as a gift for the birthdat girl. They didn't have a clock, but the show I reckon ran between 35-45 minutes NOT including the 10-15 minutes of balloon animals, with a special balloon animal for the kids. I must mention that I'm a clown too, but very rarely. This couple wanted "Eddini The Magician" though. Another thing, I worse nice black jeans, a black breast pocket, T-Shirt, and a Black zip up sweater, (I needed the extra pockets). I just had the sleeves pushed up, as I refuse to perform in sleeves. I also had my signature top hat. I just bought a suit, with dress up shoes, dress socks, a short sleeve button-up, breast pocket white dress shirt, a black clip-on tie (Yep, I don't know how to tie a tie...lol), and I should say my suit ib black. I'm getting a real nice black top at a tuxedo place. I used my Ronjo's close-up street table. My tripod broke so I use a T.V. dinner stand, as I do on the street. I should mention the guy gave me a $100.00 anyway. His family and kids liked the show. My goal is to get another stand, just for my "formal" gigs, as my brand new suit and top hat will be for my "formal" gigs too. In the street I just wear jeans a t-shirt, and my top hat and I've done well. I just want a seperate stand, outfit, and newer, tricks of the same trick I have so they look in better shape, and newer tricks period. I want a new sign that's laminated that's taped to my stand, and to my future new stand. My ultimate goal is to look professional, enough so that a agent will take me on. I'll always keep doing my beloved street performing, but I want to be able to work in the cold season's too, and not just in the summer. I live in New Hampshire. I want to work year round. I need an agent though as I'm not a very aggressive sales person, and not too business minded. I want new stuff, (a stand, outfit...ect) like I said as to look more professional. As far as a car, I'm just not able to own one for personal reasons. I'd have to ask my future agent to get me "local" gigs. Like I said I'm a street performer at heart. Actually I'm not much of a "show magician". Doing restuarant, and strolling magic in the winter and fall months are what is ideal for me. I mean I'll do B-Day parties too. I just need advice on this whole thing. I really want to become "Professional", and make a living doing this. That's why with my street performing tips, I'm investing in new stuff, like I did with the suit, tie, and so on. I consider myself semi-professional, as I do make some money at this. I want to take it to the next step. I have 13 years experience, with 7 years of street performing under my belt as a Magician. Anyway any advice and help will be GREATLY APPRECIATED. Thanks, Ed, (Eddini).
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
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Jeff Alan New user Georgia 88 Posts |
Ed,
Welcome to kid's parties! Firstly, are you doing kid's shows suddenly because you need money or because it is your desire. If it's for money, please return to the streets as you won't be doing the kids any favor by showing up. Secondly, why don't you drive? And how did you get a license if you never had a car> Did you borrow someone's car? I would say you surely need to get a car if you are to do kid's parties. How many parents on the day of their pride's Bday want to bother tracking down the magi? Also, Your list seems huge for a kid's party. Usually 4-10 items are plenty, but you'll need patter & routines & presentation to go with each one which will make a 30-45 minute show. Remember kids like stories, not just a group of tricks. Your list seems card-heavy as well. Except for a Jumbo card trick, I would keep the cards away from kids parties. If they are on the floor, etc., you will find it difficult, kid's don't follow card tricks as well either, and many times will forget the card before the ending is near. I wouldn't worry about not having big props, just have big show! Bright, colorful, funny, airy but dramatic. Kid's shows require good acting skills (I think), and good storytelling. Many Top rated kid's magi's use 4 or 5 items to fill 45 minutes. If you riddle them with trick after trick they will have forgotten the first 15 tricks completely by the end of the show. Pricing: I think it's OK for the first 6 months to charge a discount rate, as you are new and still learning. This is common in almost every industry. But after 6 months you need to make a decision to stop doing kids parties or raise your rates to market level. Find out what the average is for your area for a kids show and go with it. $200 in Atlanta is not uncommon. Some charge more, some less but the average is there. I am sure the kid's enjoyed you. Kid's will enjoy themselves with almost any magic show, but it's up to you to turn it from enjoyable to memorable. If you desire to do more, I think you will ultimately do a great job, and this is a good place to hang out and glean ideas and techniques from others who want to share. Best of luck, Jeff
Aim high and you won't get your shoes wet.
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Ed,
Welcome! You may need to re-think the idea of an agent or a manager being an answer to some of your problems. Generally, unless you are going to make them piles of money constantly, they want someone that is low maintence. - Donald.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Cheshire Cat Special user Wilmslow, UK 941 Posts |
Can I ask what is preventing you from buying say a small easy to drive SUV like a Suzuki? High visibility and will fit loads of gear in the back when seats are down. Is it cost? Or are you genuinely frightened of using a motor vehicle? - You have a licence.
I too would suggest you are getting through rather a lot of magic routines, I think I'd run away and play half way through this lot (and I'm 54). How about using a small combo amp, a CD/tape player and organising some games with children and allowing (especially girls) to dance a bit as well? Get yourself some 260 modelling balloons and one of the many 'one balloon animal' tutorials available - they are very easy. I have to say that the very best children's entertainers usually never even need to think of the word 'agent' unless they are working cruise liners etc. Start off with newspaper ads. Then maybe try Yellow Pages. If you are really suited to working with children you'll find yourself fitting into a routine. If you are not then you'll find your own body and senses tell you so! i.e. constant clock watching whilst entertaining, getting up tight at the least little niggle, - dreading going out on the next party etc. Children's entertainment has a habit of attracting people for easy bucks or whatever . . . but it always spits out all but those who are truly adapted for it! Regarding charging, please don't start undercutting as you will be doing the business a dis-service, and yourself a dis-service, and parents are not that vulnerable that they will always go for the 'cheapest'. Good Luck anyway. |
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Emazdad Inner circle Plymouth UK 1954 Posts |
Hi Ed.
Firstly as others have already said, to make a living out of this business you need your own transport, if your good word will get around and you'll be doing more than one show a day. How are you going to achieve this without transport. I must say you've got some bottle, I wouldn't have the nerve to ask a booker to pick me up, let alone drop me off home as well. Your list of tricks is huge, in a 30-45 minute show a good children's entertainer would use less than half that. You need to work on the routines for the tricks and extend the performance time for the best routines and bin the others. Also as others have said bin the close-up card effects. Kids like, FUN, routines with simple but strong magic. With children it's the fun journey through the trick they enjoy, more than the magic itself. Invest in some comedy wands and props and introduce these into the routines. When you want to find out what to charge, phone a few entertainers in your area to find out what they charge, you don't want to under cut them. Set your fee (using the average price in your area as a guide), by working out what you think you show is worth then add a bit more on top so when you do do a show you feel you have to work harder to justify your fee. As your diary fills up and you find your getting more calls than you can handle you gradualy increase your fees. As for Agents, if your good enough you don't need them. Be professional in everything you do:- have a good friendly phone manner, Find out everything you can about a gig, before you give them a price. I know one guy who answered the question "how much is the magic show?" by just saying "£50" Great said the caller we'd like to book you. He comitted himself to it only to find The party was in Bristol, he lived in Plymouth 120 miles away. Send out a confirmation letter for each booking, call the booker a couple of days before to check details. Ensure that whatever clothes you wear are clean and smart, that goes for your props as well, no-one likes a scruffy magician. Be punctual, the booker will start panicing if you don't arrive in plenty of time. Don't be afraid to politly advise the booker of any changes you need made to allow you to perform your show to the best of your abilities. If they want you to perform in an area that's unsuitable you must point out where it's best for you to work. I've had whole tables moved before because they set it up in the only suitable place in a room. ENSURE YOU HAVE PUBLIC LIABILITY INSURANCE this is very important if you accidently hurt a child you can get sued. If anyone is working without it they are very foolish.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley www.emazdad.com "Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic" Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't. |
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Eddini_81976 Inner circle 2183 Posts |
The reason, I don't have a car is financial. I've been on disability for personal reasons since 1998. I just can't afford the insurance mostly. In New Hampshire you don't legally insurance, but at the same time I wouldn't want to drive uninsured. I take the bus a lot, get rides from family, and also living in the center of my downtown I'm close to everything. that's why I'd just like to do local stuff. I can always take the bus or a cab. I also haven't driven in years, so I'm out of practice. I took Driver's Ed. in High School. Also I never approach them. If they want to hire me, they ask me, THEN I mention the transportation thing. I then leave it up to them. This particular couple saw me street perform, and asked if I did parties. I gave them a card, and told them of my transportation needs. They said that, that wasn't a problem. As I am Also a clown (I'm a Hobo Clown like Emmett Kelly, Red Skeleton...ect, named "Tears". When I was 15, about the same time I got into Magic, I took an once a week, 8 week clowning course). I consider myself a "Magician" mostly as I rarely clown. AceParties, I DO, DO Balloon animals, after my shows as I mentioned above. As far as Microphones, I'm afraid of them. I don't use them. I don't like hearing the sound of my voice. I've used one, once or twice already. I get spooked, and jumble my lines. that's why I prefer close-up, street performing, strolling, and parlor "small shows". Even in high school, doing escapes, I had written down something for a friend, and a M.C. to say, as I performed. I can speak pretty loudly. I took acting in high school for 2 years.
As far as Card Tricks, I totally understand what you are saying, that's why I do visual Card Tricks for kids, like Red Hot Mamma, Mental Photography Deck, and MacDonald's Aces.These ids "got" what I did and were amazed. My specialty is Cards, Mentalism, and Escapology. I do Card Tricks in the street for kids all the time for kids, so I'm use to it, and know how to play it over for them. It's funny, doing street magic you'd expect my vast audience to be kids, it's not however. Maybe 30% percent are kids. I mostly perform for Teens, Young Adults, College Age People, and your ocassional older group of couple's. I mean, I have Hot Rod, The Coloring Book, a couple of rope tricks...ect, for when kids do come watch me. Another funny thing, if it is kid's who have seen me before, they actually request my Card Tricks, like the visual type, I mentioned before. Trust me, I wouldn't do any gambling routines, or heavy mentalism for kids. I did Dr. Jaks "Super Sonic" (a prediction effect, with a stand and 6 Jumbo Cards), and the kids were like "How did you know I'd pick that...ect". This last show was consisted of 8-10 kids, all girls ages between 8-10, and one boy (the younger brother of the B-Day girl) he was the yougest, being only 5. It also had the 2 Grandmothers, and the parents, making the audience about 13-15 people. I'm use to performing for about 20 people at a time at the most. Even in my Street Magic, I live in a nice New England Tourist Town. I only get small groups of people, only ocassionally drawing a big crowd, (like 20 or more people). I get young couples, teens, and so on like I said. I can make like anywhere from $50.00 to $130.00 a night for a 6-8 hour work night. I work from like 6:00pm-2:00am Friday & Saturday nights. I tried during the day, and surprisingly, not many people stop. I've done it for 7, years now, at the same exact place. People say they know it's Summer when I'm out set up. I have many repeat spectators, that's why I'm always trying to buy and to learn new tricks each week. I'm mostly known for my Card Stuff. Now Jeff Alan, as far, as am I in it to make money? No, BUT I'd like to supplement my income more, and to make more of a living at it. Also I'm tired of just being a Summer Performer. I want to be able to work more year round. I'm NOT saying strictly as a kid show performer either. All I want is to be able to do a good kid's show when the need arises. that's why I bought a suit...ect. so I can look more professional. IDEALLY, I'd like to do Restuarant Magic more or less in the Winter, and STROLLING Magic for like Banquets...ect, as I feel that fits my performing style the best. I just want to do kids parties, when called upon more or less. Like I said the family of my last party really liked my show, and even paid me more than my asking price. My A.C., and Card To Wallet, and Red Hot Mamma, and The Cut 'n' Restored Rope got the biggest reactions, I'd have to say, and the more (Kid Show Stuff, silks from empty box) got the LESSER reaction to be honest with you. Donald, what are you talking about as far as "Low Maintenance"? I'm just curious, as to what you mean. I don't think I require a lot,just someone to get me local gigs. I figure once I'm doing better financially with my Magic, then I can get a car and branch out more. My best friend who knows, me probably the most out of anyone has been telling me for years, that he wishes (as I also) do that I worked more often, and more year round. He thinks, I'm good, as he has also heard other (people he don't really know) people say of me as well. He lives in the next town over too...lol. Trust me that's not to brag, but he just thinks it's a shame (as I feel as well) that I'm not doing more. He thinks the key for me is finding a Manager, or an angent. He knows my self-confidence, and self-esteem, is kind of low. Partly as I told him, I don't think I'm professional enough...(looking, my stand...ect), that's why I'm investing in the clothing, a stand for my formal gigs...ect) as I sad before. He doesn't think I'm "aggressive enough" or that I put myself "out there" enough as far as seeking gigs, and selling myself. My friend Paul who's in is late 50's use to manage a band in the late 60's for like a year or so. Paul is also like my step-dad, and even introduces me to people as his step-son...lol. Anyway drugs (on the band's part) broke the band up. I guess they did make a album on a small record label. Although Paul is not a Manager by trade, he said if he was in better health, that he'd manage me. He has bad arthritus, and a form of Lou Gerrick's disease. He said he'd be tough on me too (as he thinks I need a good push once in a while). Like I said (and I fully agree with him), that the key to my success is to get a good Manager, or an Angent who will be aggressive as far as selling me, to get me gig's, and who knows how to talk "business", and "money matters", and of course they would get their 10-20%, which Paul's says is the reason, they'd work hard to get me gigs, (mosty Walk-Around, Banquet, Restuarant, Magic in my case, and the ocassional B-Day Party). It's just that I'm 27 now, and although I LOVE Street Peforming (which I'll ALWAYS continue to do, even in the future provided I have no gigs elsewhere), I just a little disgusted with myself, I haven't done more with my Magic. I've had people suggest moving to a warmer climate, so that I can do my street magic year round (acually I was born & raised in Florida, but when I was 10 days before turning 18 in 1994 my Dad passed away, and I moved up here to N.H. with my younger siblings, because my Mom had been already living here since I was 10), but that's not really an option for me. I live in Elderly/Disabled, Public Housing, and they need their rent whether I'm staying in my apartment or not. I'm also close to my family, and they all live like within 5-10 minutes from me. Anyway I don't want to be some "famous magician" just a "Well Known" Magician (which I am already to a certain extent) in my area who can work "year-round", locally (20 mile raduis for now) doing the above fore mentioned venues. Also, not to get off-topic, But for a while now, I've been really wanting to get married and to start a family, and I need to take action to get my career more underway so that I can support a family. I know 27 may be young, but I want kids while I still have the energy to raise them. I'm sorry for such a long post, but I wanted to give you more of my back ground, and my thinking behind things while addressing people's previous comments & advice which I do indeed appreciate. Any other advice/comments will be appreciated as well. Thanks, Ed, (Eddini). Quote:
On 2004-06-20 16:47, Emazdad wrote: Thanks for the advice. Trust me I hate asking for rides, and for that very reason, have turned down a lot of shows. I ALWAYS ask if the people are local, so that I can determine as far as if I can take a cab or a Public Bus. IT is humiliating for me to ask for rides. I do have pride. I've argued this fact actaully with Paul, my best friend. I said "it just doesn't look professional to ask the people to come pick me up, it just looks bad". He said that if I cut down on my price, and if they are impressed enough with me, that they'll hire me. He also said that working is better than not working at all. So I swallow my pride so to speak. Actually for the particular show, the couple saw me street performing, gave me a $20.00 tip, and asked, if I did kids parties, and I said yes. I then asked if they were local, because I didn't own a vehicle. They said that, that was no problem, that they'd come pick me up. I said okay. I asked who the birthday kid was. They said that their daughter was turning 9. I then asked how many guests would I be performing for. They said for only like 8-10 close friends. I said that sounded good. I asked them if they wanted a clown magician, or "Eddini The Magican"? They said "just how you are now, and the tricks I was doing" (My Street Magic)was just fine. I said that sounds good then. I gave them my business card, and the next night I checked my phone messages, and they said their Daughter's B-Day was just one week away, and wanted pricing details, and direcions to where I lived. I called back that same day and said I usually charge $100.00 for a show which runs 30-40 minutes, then after the show. I give each kid a balloon animal (I just do like 6-8 basic shapes, plus a couple of hats), and that, that usually lasts 10-15 minutes. So I said the whole thing lasts in TOTAL 50-60 minutes. I added I'd cut off $25.00 for the rides. So I'd charge him $75.00 in total. I said that it would take me about 10 minutes to set up, and 10 minutes to pack up. I asked that the kids be sitting in front of me in chairs (if possible) and that they be set up in a quarter-half circle formation, and that I either be performing in a corner, or against a wall so that no one is watching from behind. I then gave him directions to where I live, and to all me to confirm everything,at his earliest convenience. We played answering machine phone tag all week. I tried calling him 3 more times. His wife tried calling, once and got my answering machine. Then the night before the party he called to confirm on my answering machine, and that he'd pick me up at noon. I called back and reached him personally this time. So everything was set. The show went good, and he paid me $100.00 anyway, which took me by surprise. that's was fine by me...lol. As far as that insurance I've never heard of it until a couple of days ago while reading a forum here. I'm foolish I guess. If I can't afford car insurance I don't know how I'll afford that insurance. As far as getting a car due to my financial situation (read my 2nd post on my money situation, and also about who Paul is, that I mentioned), that presently is a little out of my control. I agree, with you as far as the routining, and amount of tricks I do. I'm more a "serious" performer. Even my Clown character is somewhat serious, being a sad-face hobo clown. I mean I can joke and do a one-liner here and there,I'm somewhat self-conscious, so it's hard for me to be real silly acting. Please read my second post on this subject, to see where I feel MOST suited performing and for more details on my situation Emazdad, and thanks very much for your valuable input, Ed, (Eddini).
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
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Andy Wonder Special user Auckland, New Zealand 747 Posts |
Wow... sounds like you need to treat things more seriously.
I can relate to what you are saying. I am about your age & was single & broke just a couple of years ago. Where do I start? Maybe it is not an agent you need but a mentor. All the advice given by other caf?members is excellent. These guys are pros that have had years of experience. The best advice I think I could offer is seriously work on building strong goal setting skills. I think you would find the Anthony Robbins Personal Power program useful. I got it when I was age 26 and it was well worth it. Set some ambitious goals. There is no reason why you could not earn enough over the next for weeks to buy a nice basic car. As far as your transport situation goes you need to realize that you can’t make good money in magic without your own transport. It is a business and you need to treat it as such. I would take taxi’s to shows before I would ask for a ride. It is just not professional. Factor in the cost of a taxi into your fee. Once you start to get busy you won’t be able to afford not to have a car. Plus if you want to find a wife having transport plus pleanty of $$$ is going to be essential for that.
Andy Wonder, Auckland, New Zealand
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Eddini_81976 Inner circle 2183 Posts |
Yes you are right, that is why I'm investing in stuff, like I bought a formal suit. I'll be getting a new stand soon so that I have a nice stand, and not use my street performing stand which is good for what it is, but not for formal shows. I'm going to get better signs (laminated) for both my street performing stand, and on my future stand. I mean, I'm really starting to invest in stuff. I finally got a suit and tie. I AM starting to take this more seriously. Yes I DO know I need a car. I live off of my disability check which is under $600.00 a month. (I don't feel it's appropriate to discuss my disability. I briefly mentioned it in the "Not Well" forum months ago). I have to buy food, pay my rent...ect.
In the Winter Months I live STRICTLY off that. Hopefully that will change this Winter. In the summer, I at least have my street performing tips to help out. I can make anywhere from $125.00-$250.00 on a weekend. My other dillema is that every couple weeks, I need to buy new tricks/DVD's/Videos/Books, so I can have New Stuff for my repeat costumer's. I have repeat people EVERY WEEKEND who expect new tricks, just as they should, so my Magic is frequently being invested in. I've only asked for a ride like twice. Like I said they offer most of the time, if I've asked if they are local, and they said no, and I mentioned I only do local stuff do to no vehicle. Like I said too I've turned down a lot of show offers. I've taken cabs a few times. I'm glad you can understand where I'm coming from. I'm glad to hear such expert advice too. It's very appreciated. I'm a seasoned (7 years now...BUT with a lot to learn) "Street Magician", again that's not to brag at all but that is just my forte. Again, I am getting more serious as my rescent purchases, and future purchases will show, but for now I have to buy what I can afford, while still presenting something new to my regular street fans who watch me every week. I again thank you all so much in helping me do more "year round" indoor gigs. Ed, (Eddini).
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Ed -
Do you know the expression from the movie, Field of Dreams, "If you build it, they will come"? Well, a successful magic business is like that. You need to have something to offer an agent, that makes you appeal to them, rather than expect than an agent or a manager will somehow lift you up to a professional level (by professional, I mean making a living from performing). Look at things from an agent's point of view. An agent is looking for someone who will make them a lot of money, with the least amount of effort on their part. They are looking for someone who will do a quality show, and also be reliable. They are looking for someone who is self-confident, and has good self-esteem. However, they do not serve you, and don't really care about your needs. They are not in business to get you gigs. That is thinking like a performer, not an agent. An agent is in business to serve their customers, and make money from their customers. For them, they make the most money by having a customer who has a budget of $2500, for example. They book a performer who will cost them $1750, and the agent profits $750 of the $2500. There are a whole range of percentages an agent makes, not just 10% or 20%. The more customers they have with higher budgets, the happier they are. They want performers who do really good shows, that charge lots of money, so they can sell them to these types of customers. Sure, they may have some $500 budget customers come along, but it is not really worth their effort to pursue those customers, when they only profit $50-$75. I have done over 3,000 shows and have only worked with an agent less than 5 times. You will find many of the other full-time and part-time professionals in a similar situation. Agents and managers are a pretty rare thing, unless you are at a level of charging very high fees. Even there, many performers still handle their own bookings. I was concerned about these comments: Quote:
Eddini_81976: I'm very bad business wise. I want to get an agent or manager eventually. I never know what to charge. I'm always afraid of charging too much and getting turned down. I've been told that I under sell myself. Anyway I told this guy I usually charge $100.00 a show plus balloon animals for the kids afterwards, but I'd charge him $75.00 if he could pick me up, and drop me off. Oh yes I need advice on charging and so on too. Quote:
Eddini_81976: He thinks the key for me is finding a Manager, or an angent. He knows my self-confidence, and self-esteem, is kind of low. Partly as I told him, I don't think I'm professional enough...(looking, my stand...ect), that's why I'm investing in the clothing, a stand for my formal gigs...ect) as I sad before. He doesn't think I'm "aggressive enough" or that I put myself "out there" enough as far as seeking gigs, and selling myself. If you want to make a business of magic, you are going to need to make an effort to pursue and learn about things business-wise. You are also going to have to learn about marketing. There are some good products out there, and there are lots of great books. And you don't need to look only at the world of magic for books about marketing, the best ones are often from authors that know business and marketing, and aren't writing their books to magicians. Maybe to start, you could read all of the threads in the Tricky Business section of the Magic Café. I also highly, highly recommend reading all of the threads at the Dean's List: http://www.thedean.net/forum If you want to read some great books that will grow your mind, I recommend this thread on The Dean's List: Thread titled... Library Choices, If you......ks...... About the issue of self-confidence and self-esteem. Andy has suggested a very good resource to help you with goal-setting. I think that if you learn to set some goals, and accomplish them, it will help you to feel more self-confident. Learn the proper tools to make goal setting work, and your self confidence and self esteem will increase. Small daily victories lead to larger victories. I know you don't have a lot of money, or I would suggest taking Dale Carnegie Training. It will do wonders for you, because they have an excellent approach to personal growth that includes memory work, human relations growth, public speaking opportunities, positive encouragement, learning how to communicate effectively and how to sell your ideas to others, etc. I've shared a lot to think about (mostly about business... others have covered the show aspect rather well), because you have asked about growing in many ways at once. Only you truly know whether you have the burning desire to change and become the person you are capable of becoming. - Donald.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Chrystal Inner circle Canada/France 1552 Posts |
Hi Eddini,
I really like the advice Jeff and others gave you. I too would suggest only 4- 10 items are needed for a full childrens show. It's also true that traditionally the hobo clowns are the serious ones of the bunch as are the white faced clowns. The Auguste or pink faced clowns are the joksters and goofy ones. (But heck who's to say you can't break those rules.) Still as a clown you can have funny gags or props that don't necessarily have to be magic to use as fillers for your show. It sounds like you are successful in your street performances and know how to carry a show. It is different, granted performing for kids as their attention span isn't like those of adults. Kids are also much freeer in giving their disproval if they don't like a show. I realize financially that a car is not possible at this time for you but I too would suggest always cabbing it and never ask for a ride. We currently have one magician in our Ring that also doesn't have a vehicle and his solution? He goes to shows on his bike! Now before any of you show disproval for this, hear me out. He won the Childrens Entertainer of the Year award as Dustin the Purple Pirate. For a few dollars he had his bike customized with fiberglass to resemble a boat and has become a fixture in the city. Great PR as he's an unforgetable character! He also had the part that was extended on his bike to use as storage for his props. "Where there's a will there's a way", as the expression goes. You may also reconsider how much more monies you could recieve if you weigh out the following factors: Perhaps not purchase new DVD's and other items until you have a vehicle. You mentioned your repeat customers express to see new effects all the time - but how long do you perform for on the street? Is it possible to just alternate shows on the weekend so that repeat customers see a different show one week compared to the next but not week after week. That would wear anyone's pocket book out. How much are these repeat customers tipping compared to new ones? Is it worth purchasing new items on their behalf? Would saving up the money for a vehicle instead be your best business interest as you may find you will make far more money in the long run. Anyway things to think about and you may want to ask this question in Tricky Business as that forum deals with questions such as these. Another thing I just thought of, when performers are hired to do walkaround magic most only show 3 effects then move on. They don't show all the items they have as they may run into the same people again and would then bring out other effects. Is it possible you are showing so many things to the crowd that you do run out of things for the regulars? I would hold back on a few and then perform them the following week. I have always appreciated your honesty Eddini and while I don't know you personally, I do remember your post a while ago regarding your disability. I wish you the best of luck and hope you find the advice at the Café useful. Chrystal |
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Eddini_81976 Inner circle 2183 Posts |
Very well put. Yes it is up to me to make it work, and I will. Thanks very much for the links. I'll go check them out. I can't let my illness (Manic Depressive "Bipolar Disorder"/Panic Attack Disorder), and "fear" get in the way anymore. I mean I do quite well doing my "Street Performing" so I can and WILL perform in other venues too. I don't know why I was ashamed to mention my illnesses before. Its like a physical illness, so I shouldn't be ashamed. It's part of who I am, and I just deal with it, like any other illness. Sorry to be too personal, maybe people can relate. Too bad there is such bad stigma on Mental Illness though. Anyway enough on that. I can see what you are saying about, the financial part of agents. Are agents and managers the same thing? Anyway, again I thank you. I'll check out those links as well, Ed, (Eddini).
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
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Emazdad Inner circle Plymouth UK 1954 Posts |
I bet once you start your show your illness disapears, I've got a major back problem, which they are still trying to diagnose, Sometimes even walking is very painful. I often carry my stuff into a shop, trying not to show I'm in severe pain, but once I start the show the adreniline makes the pain virtually disapear. I can even crouch down low to talk to the helpers which is something I find difficult to do other times.
Wouldn't it be great if we were able to get this good feeling on prescrition from the doctor. There is some wonderful sound advice coming your way Ed, all of it from working proffessionals who know there stuff. Your mates comments about a manager are based around his experience with a band, but as Donald said, you have to impress an agent before theyll put you on their books, and an agent is not there to look after you, they are there to work for the customers. From what you say, if you had transport and got yourself some nice professioal looking business cards which you could give out to the parents you would get a lot more enquiries for parties. The main problem is not your illness, you've alreadyu got work destpite it, it's the lack of transport and business sense. You obviously travel light, so Chrystals Idea of a bike is a good one, it's cheap and you can jazz it up to look quite smart. For longer distance shows add the taxi fare to your fee and take a cab. (Don't mention the added taxi fee to the client just give them a price for the show) Handing out the business cards will ensure that those that see you, but don't talk to you at the street shows, 1, Know you do birthday Parties 2, more importantly your number As the others have said with your street shows don't fire off all your tricks at once, extend the routines to cut down the number of tricks for each show, spread your current tricks over 3 shows and alternate them every week. That way they don't see the same stuff onthe street every week, and you can divert the money your spending on new stuff towards your car. Get a good book and learn new trickls using props you already have. That way you can show something new and it hasn't cost you a lot of money. Thumb tips, cards, change bags, Rope, Rubber Bands etc have a milion uses. Sit down one day with a piece af paper and write out a business plan. Work out what you need and priorities it. Then work towards each goal one at a time. Business cards first as a starter, then transport, then some advertising.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley www.emazdad.com "Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic" Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't. |
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Eddini_81976 Inner circle 2183 Posts |
My repeat costumers usually tip anywhere from $5.00-10.00 ocassionally a $20.00. I don't do a "set show". I mean I usually open with, and close with the same few tricks. My specialty is Cards, & Mentalism. I carry about 20-30 tricks in my case, not including the Sleight-of-Hand tricks I can do with a normal deck. I don't do huge crowds as I don't perform in a city. I get anywhere from one person to ten people, rarely I may get a crowd of 20-30 but VERY RARELY. I do some patter but not too much as people have places to go. I normally perform 2-5 tricks a small crowd. Some people however want me to keep going for like up to a half an hour, one reason I have so many tricks in my close-up case so I always have something new. I'm mostly use to performing for teens, young couples, frat guys, soriety girls, drunks (unfortunately), and the ocassional mid-age to older couple. Some people just want tricks and not patter, as they have places to go. Now I do have certain patter for my tricks. Here's an example of a set list I do. (I also have to play it by ear in case certain people have seen certain tricks).
1. Red Hot Mamma 2. Scotch & Soda 3. My version of TitleBout/Remember & Forget, with 5 people which slays a crowd. 4. Mental Photography Deck 5. In a Flash 6. Then I like to close with either of one these tricks 1. MacDonald's Aces 2. Ambitious Card, with Card to Wallet (Mullica) 3. Thumbcuff comedy routine People on average are at my stand 5-15 minutes depending on how long they want to stay. Rarely they might want to stay an half hour. I FIRMLY believe in pleasing my crowd. If they want more, I'm not going to say "Well I can't do anymore for you". I mean they are paying customers to me. HOWEVER if I am plain worn out or exausted my tricks I'll hint to them saying, "and now for my finale", or I'll say "and for my last trick", and so on, BUT sometimes even then, they'll stand around my stand wanting more...lol. I only get kids under 12, 20%-30% of the time. Now the tricks I carry in my case, are 1. X-Ray Box 2. Deju Vu Deck 3. Brainwave 4. ESPwild 5. Skinner's Ultimate 3 Card Monte 6. Bill Tube 7. Thumbcuffs 8. Lighting Bolt 9. Lethal Tender 10. In a Flash 11. Hot Rod 12. Mental Photography Deck 13. Professor's Nightmare 14. MacDonald's Aces 15. A.C. / Card To Mullica Wallet 16. T.T. with silk 17. Svengali Deck / DeTour De Force / Mastermind / SUM Deck / Ultimate Miracle Deck, / Impossibe Opener / Force of Thought / Mind Power Deck / Vanished & Gone / Hollow Hole, I switch Decks these in & out of my case, each weeked for variety. 18. B'Wave 19. Card Warp 20. Vaishing Pack of Cards (Tony Curtis Style) 21. Limited Edition 22. A Blank Deck I made up for a Mind Reading Trick I do (see "Secret Sessions" for details). This I carry in a breast pocket. In my Back Pack I carry : 1. Balloons & Pump for Balloon Animals for kids 2. Cut 'n' Restored Rope props 3. Coloring Book 4. Clear'vu Change Bag with slips of paper & Book for a Book Test. Straight Sleight-Of-Hand Tricks I Do (I'll just list a few). 1. Red Hot Mamma, which I open with 90% of the time. This I carry with my sraight deck in my case 2. Reset 3. Triumph with slop shuffle method 4. My Version of Titlebout/Remember & Forget with 5 people / 10 selections. 5. Michael Skinner's "3 Different Ways" 6. Further Than That 7. Poker Routine with Faro-Shuffle 8. Two Card Transpo with Dup. using a Color Change 9. Magician Vs. Gambler Vs. Mentalist 10. Finding 3-5 Selections, 3-5 different ways Ect...Ect...Ect. That may seem like A LOT of tricks, but not really. The same people have seen me the past 7 years. As you see I carry stuff specifically for kids when they do come see me. I have "regulars" who are kids as well, but not many. Yes "Tramp" Clowns can and do, do gags. I act a tiny bit sillier when I perform, in my clown, which is like once a year. I RARELY do clowning. I consider myself more of a Magician. Like I said I took an 8 week clown course though church went too, when I was 15. All in all I've been doing Magic for about 13 years, with an ocassional show here, and there, talent shows, and for family and friends. The past 7 years however is when I started making any money with it street performing. Yes, Yes...I get it I KNOW I need get a car...lol. I will soon enough. Like I said in my 13 years counting my teen years, I've only asked for a ride like twice. Once was because the kid I was performing for was a room mate, and he was going to be at his kid's own party and we lived in the same place. The other 2-3 times the people OFFERED to pick me up after I said they lived too far away, and that because I had no car I wouldn't be able to work for them. The other times, I got a cab ride or family/friend drove me. I've only done like (not counting the $30.00 a show parties did as a beginning teen) 6-8, $75.00-$100.00 parties. Like I said walk around, and restuarant magic is what I MOSTLY want to do, and kid parties ONLY when asked to do so. And ONLY for those RARE ocassions, am I asking advice for and I've gotten VERY GREAT advice, and I thank you very much. I'll go check out the "Tricky Business" forum, and whats posted there. I'm happy that this Café as such great generous experts. Sorry for my long list of tricks. That was just so you can get an idea of the type of stuff I'm use to performing on a regular basis, and what a lot of my regulars have seen as of yet. I'm getting more DVD's now and not tricks as I feel you get more for your money. To me I learn better through seeing than reading. I consider my new DVD Player as a "Magic" investment too, as a few weeks ago at the Magic Shop (Hank Lee's) the dealer said, vidoes are becoming more absolete. Thanks Crystal for your advice. Its aways good hearing from you. Yes, I like to pour out my heart and be honest so to speak. I hope you, your family, and your dogs are doing great. Again thanks to everyone again. It's all very much appreciated. Ed, (Eddini). You are SOOOOO right like the others said as far as a cab. You are very right about the book learning too. I have a book, as well as video collection. See my profile and my previous posts if you like. I have trouble understanding what I read sometimes. that's why I get vidoes/dvd's. I learn better through seeing/demonstration. I see exactly what you are saying I just use video/dvd for the same purpose. Yes like in my above posts I do switch my street tricks around. So a car, is on my list. Right now my computer is acting up. The computer says it'll probably cost a couple of hundred to fix. He thinks it has a virus. I moderate groups, and I use my computer a lot. Just another added expense. We all have those problems though...oh well...lol. Here's my computer problem though... Note : I'm sorry if my spelling is missing letters. My computer says my "Virtual Memory" is low. I have tons of video clips, E-Books, Written Stories, and PDF Files, on my computer. I compressed them all in zippered folders though. Anyway on certain sites, like this one, yahoo, msn...ect, letters won't show when I type them. I have to hit the letter, space bar...ect, a few times for the letter to type. I know I have dust in my keyboard, but I don't think it's my keyboard however, because in Messenger, Word Perfect, the letters type out fine when I type them. For your information, I have 256 of memory, and 20 of hard drive. Maybe you know whats wrong with my computer. I'm SORRY to be off-topic. I need a Memory upgrade. It's taken like a half an hour just for this reply. I have to watch if each letter and space type out. I don't want to have to explain my spelling each time here, so I will just Copy & Paste this, and put it after every post, I post here. Again sorry to be off topic, but I just want people to know why, if my spelling is off. Thanks for your Patience & Understanding, Ed, (Eddini)
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
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Emazdad Inner circle Plymouth UK 1954 Posts |
From what you say, your more geared up for close-up than kids shows, and you do tricks without patter rather than perform the tricks.
I was taught that you should never just do a trick, a trick should always be performed. One well performed trick, with a good routine and patter is better than 4 tricks that are just done. If your going to make a success of doing parties you are going to have to delelop some fun patter to enhance the tricks..
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley www.emazdad.com "Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic" Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't. |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Here's some more food for thought.
I would encourage you not to be new for the sake of being new. Make an effort to master 9, and only 9, tricks, enough to routine a show. But really work to master them. Change those tricks into strong routines, and create some signature routines for yourself. You may need to drop the weakest routine and add in a different one, to find the show that has maximum impact on your audience. (At first, this show will be short, because you are doing 9 tricks. As they develop into routines, with bits of business, the show will lengthen out.) You see, although you have a desire to do new routines, and you think your audience has that desire too, often they want to see their favorites. Its a lot like watching a favorite TV show or movie again and again. Some will disagree with me here, but the old magic adage about not repeating a trick, is more about not doing the same trick back to back. If it is part of a show, and then 2 hours later you do the same show, that's fine. Build up what professional performers call an "A Show". This is your strongest show. Then, and only then, work on some new routines. Choose and work on one new routine each month. Practice, practice, practice to master it, and make it the most it can be. If you do 9 routines in a show (this is speaking of a long show), what you can do, is after a few months of mastering new material, you can slot in about half new tricks into your "A Show" outline and create a "B Show." Your "B Show" has about 50% material that is the same as your "A Show" and 50% all-new material. You can even work on eventually creating a "C Show" which has another 50% new material, so it ends up being completely different from your "A Show." Work on your "A Show" and make it the strongest show it can be. You will develop a customer base who wants to book you to see your signature routines, your "A Show." If you end up doing a lot of shows, you can ask the customer if they want to see the same show again, or it they want a new show. At that time, you can present your "B Show". For example, with my show and repeat customers, I do "A Show" the first year, then "B Show" the second year (so some of the favorites are still there), and then "C Show" the third year (some favorites from the year before, again). Then, on the fourth year, return to performing "A Show." This can also work in shorter time slots, if you have repeat customers who are having you back more often than once per year. To review, I would encourage you to create some signature pieces that make up your strongest show, and work to master that show as a unit. Then, you will have happier customers, and more business. - Donald.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Rupert Bair Inner circle ? 2179 Posts |
Hi Eddini,
I think you should buy some lecture notes from street artists, eg gazzo and see how they make so much money, you could really earn a lot espically as you say it is a tourist town you could have crowd learn how to keep a crowd, cups and balls, ( I take it you in uk?) gazzo has cups and balls and the art of krowd keeping books that are great, do you target diffrent areas of the town? as far as kids are concerned like everybody else says you really need to cut sown on props for a kids show, then you could have a case you could put in a basket on a customized bike before you get your car like crystal said. Cheap and eco freindly! Have fun and earn your well deseved money Matt |
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Eddini_81976 Inner circle 2183 Posts |
Thanks. In my street work Donald, I do, do patter, and I have my pet, or signature tricks. I'm real Well known for my Red Hot Mamma routine, Brainwave routine, (see the secret sessions section for details). Another one of my strongest tricks are, The Ambitous Card - Card To Wallet, My version of Titlebout/Remember & forget with 5 people taking 2 cards a peice, which slays people, MacDonald's Aces, The X-Ray Box, The Mental Photography Deck, Skinner's 3 Card Monte, Mind Power Deck and my comedy Thumbcuff Routine. Each Trick lasts...
1. Red Hot Mamma - About 5 Minutes 2. A.C., Card To Wallet - 5 to 7 Minutes 3. TitleBout/Remember & Forget - 6 to 8 Minutes 4. MacDonald's Aces - About 5 Minutes 5. X-Ray Box - About 5 Minutes 6. Mental Photography Deck - 3 to 5 Minutes (ala Bill Malone) 7. Skinners 3 Card Monte - About 5 Minutes 8. Thumbcuff Routine - 5 to 7 Minutes 9. Mind Power Deck with 3 or more people - 5 to 7 Minutes I'm PRIMARILY a CLOSE-UP card worker, who does a little mentalism. Actually for a couple of years now, I've wanted to develop a Show with just Mentalism. I feel, that, I'm stronger suited for that type of performing. I have enough material for a Mentalism, show, with good patter for a few of the "Tricks" or "Experiments" as I call them. I even have a Mentalism name picked out, and would like to get seperate cards for that. I mean I've had people in the streets really convinced I was a psychic, asking if I did "readings" and so on. I think I could script out a show A LOT better for that type of show. You see I only expect and WANT to do maybe 3-5 kid shows a year hence, asking advice for ONLY those RARE shows, which I have got, and I thank you all very much. Just so you know here are my priorities from greatest to least as far as INTEREST & GOALS as a performer in what type of venues I DESIRE to perform in. 1. Street Performing 2. Walk-Around (Banquets..ect) and Restuarant Table Hopping. 3. Getting a seperate Mentalism "Parlor Type" show, since I don't do stage, or speak in mics. 4. The rare and ocassional kid's show if asked, mostly because money is money, and I hate turning people down. I love kids, don't get me wrong, (I want my own), but my personality and performing style, isn't much the Kid's Show type. Thanks again, Ed. P.S. Like I said I DO, DO patter, but sometimes people in the street are in a hurry. To answer your question Matt, I've been in the same spot for the past 7 years. Portsmouth, New Hampshire, U.S.A. is a popular but small town. I set up where there is the most foot traffic (More $$$ that way), and people know me, and know where to find me. I have also developed techniques over the years, so my tips increase, and that 90% of those that watch will tip me. Yes, I want to get the Cellini DVD's soon. Thanks Again, Ed, (Eddni).
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
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triadsong Regular user Long Island, NY 170 Posts |
As a former Mental Health professional I say KUDOS for your openness and especially for not allowing yourself to be "victimized" by your illness. If I was still working in MH I would be asking for your permission to copy your statements above as testimony to others who "give up" just because a doctor said that they had such-and-such-diagnosis. (I'm petrified of the idea street performing myself!)
Also your act will come more together with each show that you do. Start with fewer routines and don't be afraid to cut tricks out of you need to. It is better to be overprepared than to try cramming every effect into a 45 minute set. Besides which if you save a few you have something to do extra on the way out for the kid who was afraid, shy, etc. As for the re-investment into your act perhaps if you meet others in your area you can start a sort of co-op learning/sharing group. I don't mean to copy already copy-written material but to come together to teach each other and share what knowledge and resources each of you already have. And Break a leg -- or two! |
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Eddini_81976 Inner circle 2183 Posts |
Wow!!! Thanks for your encouragement and advice. That goes for everyone too. What was your Mental Health Job, (Social Worker, Case Manager, Therapist, Psychiatrist...ect) if you don't mind me asking? You can PM it to me if you like. I'm just curious is all. Please feel free to use my comments if you like. I'm not exactly sure (to me at least) how they could be of help, but if you think they can help others please use them by all means. You've really made my day, and I sincerely thank you for that, Ed, (Eddini).
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
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triadsong Regular user Long Island, NY 170 Posts |
Ed,
I don't mind sharing at all. I was an Intensive Case Manager for people who needed quick llinkage with all types of resources (housing, doctors, etc) and then I worked as the Supervisor to 17 Case Managers most of whom were helping approximately thrity plus people. Prior to that I ran a Group Home for Developmentally Disabled Adults. Vin |
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