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UKNeil Regular user 190 Posts |
So there you are. You have paid a significant amount of money to buy limited edition books/projects. In them you see some great effects and you admire the creator's work. Then in the future the creator releases other projects which are not limited editions and contain some of these same effects. You feel fooled and slightly conned and you lose a bit of respect for the creator. This happens again and again. Are you right to feel conned? When is too often, too much? And I have nothing against tattoos.
Thoughts?
Chamber of Wallets
http://www.chamberofwallets.com |
ALEXANDRE Inner circle 3024 Posts |
This has happened quite often, but I'm not bothered because a lot of times there are different subtleties added or maybe a different presentation on a previously released routine. As long as there is something I can use I don't feel conned of fooled.
Sometimes you're getting a limited edition to get your hands on it first! If years later some of these same effects get released again, I don't particularly mind. What bothers me somewhat is when it's made clear in an ad that a particular manuscript or effect will never be released again and that this is your only chance of picking it up, then a couple of years later, or less, there it is again. Though I understand that there are reasons for this in certain cases, where a particular thing becomes hugely popular or is shared extensively legally or illegally, then why shouldn't the creator put it out again in a different form? It can be tricky. But the way I see it is that eventually, if you live long enough, everything and anything of value will be put out again to the community. Some gambling secrets are a good example of this. Nothing released will ever be truly exclusive. The only way to keep something truly exclusive is to create something yourself or be fortunate enough to be in a tight circle of friends who only shared said things among themselves. I have a couple of things I have only shared with close friends, I trust those friends, and it'll stay exclusive that way until such a time where I deem appropriate to share with a wider audience.
HERE'S A SECRET ...
http://www.lybrary.com/mystic-alexandre-m-354.html |
Peter_turner V.I.P. Bradford, West Yorkshire 1355 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 5, 2022, UKNeil wrote: You asked a similar question in the Legacy Book thread. In the case of my work, take my latest hardcover (unreleased book) 'Attic Salt' I wrote the book in 2018 and finished it in 2019. I have done multiple lectures, interviews and worked on a multitude of products since then and I have talked about publicly 1% of the ideas in that book. I dare not perform them or share them in lectures and the circle of people that know about the book have all been sworn to secrecy. The people that buy the book will be the FIRST people to ever get the chance to read the stories, look at the ideas and go out there and perform them. 85% of that book will never be re-discussed or released elsewhere - The same as my other limited edition products. The book itself also stays valuable, most people purchase the books, learn the secrets and then sell the books to someone else. I cannot condemn people for selling the books on, I know people go through hard times and if they have an asset someone will pay for food on someone's table. There's always the chance that if I release 200 books and 100 people re-sell them on, the ideas get distributed that way too. It's very difficult to not lecture or perform material you really believe in and when you have an update (years down the line) not want to share it. People upload the lecture videos, work out the performance videos and then you get the pirates on top (which really boil my blood). The beauty of owning a limited edition book is that the price more often than not goes up, not down. I released BF1 for £75, try finding a copy for that. Meaning that not only do the purchasers get the ideas first, they also make more money than what they paid originally and none of that comes back to me (the artist). I wrote those books nearly a decade ago. I recently started re-writing Dare to be BOLD (that wasn't limited edition) which I will give away for free because I look back on that book and there are things that I would change or want to amend. My views change, my ideas get better and when you look into the body of work that stays totally private (which is too much to list) the small number that does get updated or revisited is usually because I want to amend what I said or I've made improvements and advancements. I hope no one hates me for it, I just love sharing and want to please everyone. Pete. x |
UKNeil Regular user 190 Posts |
Hi Pete,
I certainly don't hate anyone at all. I have a significant number of your projects and both BF1 and BF2 I guess I didn't understand what a limited release was. In my mind (which I'm sure you just read) I thought a limited release meant the effects contained therein were 'limited' to those who have the book/project. I didn't realise 'limited' just applied to the gathering of those effects amongst others 'within' a book/project. I'm sure that is where my confusion and others is. If that makes sense? Maybe creators could mention this when they promote upcoming releases for the avoidance of doubt?
Chamber of Wallets
http://www.chamberofwallets.com |
Peter_turner V.I.P. Bradford, West Yorkshire 1355 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 6, 2022, UKNeil wrote: Thanks for the response, glad you don’t hate me as annoying people was never my intention. I did above ^ ‘Attic Salt’ is the best I’ve ever created (I say that out of pride) it is so different to anything I’ve ever worked on before. I wrote it in a pseudonym (like Dr. Crow) so I could touch upon subjects I’ve publicly not been able to speak about, ideas I’ve wanted to share and kept to myself for years. It’s so different to anything, anyone has seen of me and 85% of the things will never be talked about again, there won’t be any cross over. I cannot promise I won’t lecture the other 15% (live) or when working with another artist mention down the line an idea fleetingly. It would be way down the line though (if I make improvements). It’s a double edged sword, if I created material just to sell and no one ever heard me reference it, never saw me perform it and it disappeared into the abyss I’d be raked over the coals for that. Although saying that, try find a torrented version of ‘The book of the Demons’ - (there isn’t one) and the unpublished material in there has never been shared, never been talked about and people have been very discreet (because of the low volume of copies). In regards to the Legacy Series - (maybe) one idea made it from BF1 and the price of Bf1 was 75Gbp the legacy books were 98Gbp and were released 11 years later. For more money and they were also limited run, look on the website (they are out of stock). There are some artists who release a pdf for 1000 dollars and then sell it for 100 dollars one month later - I’ve never done that, I’ve never reduced the cost and actually, I never print more (always print less) than the amount offered. I try be as fair as possible. I’m very open, Attic Salt is due out very soon, look and see if I’m true to my word. Pete x |
UKNeil Regular user 190 Posts |
Who will Attic Salt be available through Peter?
Chamber of Wallets
http://www.chamberofwallets.com |
Matthew Benjamin New user 42 Posts |
I was with Pete today. He was demonstrating some new updates he has on previously released material.
Anything he releases will be advantageous to purchase despite owning earlier versions. In many cases the workings are entirely different. Once again I leave the company of Pete with my mind addled. MB |
Julie Inner circle 3936 Posts |
For whatever it is worth, I recall when Larry Becker released his huge book STUNNERS in a limited edition, he promised buyers he would consider the material confidential to them and NOT ADDITIONALLY RELEASE ANY OF IT FOR 2 YEARS.
In later years there was STUNNERS Plus and various lecture notes and publications and releases with "updates" etc., but I am relatively certain the original purchasers never felt cheated. Julie |
Peter_turner V.I.P. Bradford, West Yorkshire 1355 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 6, 2022, UKNeil wrote: Michael at Mindfx, We’re in the printing stages. Pete x |
Fromentum Loyal user 279 Posts |
Well I think it depends.
1: If the creator said in the initial release that it will never be released again then he shouldn't do it. 2: If he said it might be available in the future through another release he can certainly do that. But mostly I think it is never really specified in the release of a project so we have to look at the term "limited release" a bit closer. It can mean that this specific thing is limited to XX amount of items. this is often used in art: There are XX amount of this photograph on acrlyic in circulation. If now the artist decides to releasse more that is absolutely not ok. But it can also mean that this exact thing only exist XX amount of times and when the artist changes something he can release it again. To come back to the photography. The artist can change the size for example and make another limited edition half the size or 4 times the size. This is totally fine. So to come back to magic/mentalism. Does the term "limited release refere to the idea itself or the form of publication? If it referes to the idea itself then the idea in itself or the routine has to be changed substantially to make it ok for another release. If it just referes to the form of publiciaton then the mentalist just has to chenge the form (Book/DVD/VHS/USB Stick) to justify another realease. And so we came back to the original 2 points: It depens. If the mentalist meant that this exact book is limited to XX amounts (but he might later release the idea as a dvd) that's fine. But if the customer interpreted it as: This idea will never be published again! Then he is not happy with the dvd release. So in summary it can be said that the person who publishes it should specify what he means by "limited release" because it can mean both. And if the customer is not sure he should ask the person who publishes it. |
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