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Hushai Elite user St. Louis, Missouri, USA 459 Posts |
A historical question: the principle for the trick known as "My Grandmother's Necklace" (a bead or beads magically released from two cords, one of which has been knotted around the bead(s)) has been used for many other tricks and presentations as well. But, one presentation is called "The Hindu Beads," and I have read that Indian Magicians really, truly, did (maybe still do) traditionally perform this trick. My question is, is this true? Is the trick really performed by Hindu magicians? And, if so, what story might they typically tell while they're performing it? It seems somehow that it would be a good trick to illustrate some point from Hindu philosophy or religion, but what point exactly? Thanks for any help you can give me.
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Harry Murphy Inner circle Maryland 5444 Posts |
I think the Hindu story and reference is fairly modern.
The trick is described in very early European magic books. It can be seen in one of the woodcuts in the Scott book of 1584“ The Discovery of Witchcraft”. It also appears in the first English language book devoted entirely to conjuring “The Art of juggling” (1612), which was almost entirely ripped off from the Scott book. I think it is referenced in “Hocus Pocus, Junior. The Anatomy of Legerdemain” (1634) the first illustrated book on conjuring in English. In 1733 it was a trick described and pictured in a woodcut in the first Spanish language magic book “Enanos a Ojos Vistos” (deceptions in plain view). I think that it started to be called Hindu Beads when it became a “slum” magic trick. But I could be wrong.
The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
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Hushai Elite user St. Louis, Missouri, USA 459 Posts |
So, there is a long history of the principle in English and European magic literature, but in all that history there is no reference to it as a particularly Indian effect until very recent times? That would strongly argue that you are right. It somehow seems understandable that western magicians might want to associate a homegrown effect with an exotic origin, even if they had to invent that origin. Do you (or does anyone) know what faux-Indian stories NON-Indian magicians have told to go along with "the Hindu Beads?"
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
I still use my old gypsy bead necklace. it amazes everyone even today! the person thinks of a number between 1 and 15, then the necklace is broken apart into one straight line. the spectator holds one, and the magician the other. with a a little pull, the necklace breaks at the number of beads the spectator thought of, and that is how many beads there are in their hand.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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Hushai Elite user St. Louis, Missouri, USA 459 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-06-29 02:44, sirbrad wrote: This is not the effect I was asking about. The "Hindu Beads" trick I was referring to is a penetration effect in which just a few beads -- maybe three -- are released from the two cords on which they were strung, even though one of the cords has been knotted around the beads. The beads seem to pass right through the cords. |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Dean Dill has a new KILLER presentation on this that is fooling the best of the magician's that visit his shoppe.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Hushai Elite user St. Louis, Missouri, USA 459 Posts |
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On 2004-07-01 00:58, Pete Biro wrote: What is this called? I just looked at his site and I didn't see anything there that looked like the Hindu Beads. |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
He has not marketed it yet. You have to go by the shop to see him do it.
BTW Armando Lucero came in today and was INCREDIBLE his matrix type coin work is still a mystery to me.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
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On 2004-06-29 02:44, sirbrad wrote: This trick, as was said, is not the one. Neither is it that old. It was invented by Barry Stevenson and marketed through Ken Brooke in the seventies. A pirate version made in India has been circulating in recent years. The creator of the original, Barry, is still alive and lives in Majorca. Paul. |
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MagicbyCarlo Inner circle has squandered his time making 1062 Posts |
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On 2004-07-02 02:53, Pete Biro wrote: The Hindu Beads method is used for many multiple cord or string presentations. The most well known is Cords of Phantasia. There is a very nice close-up version of this published in The Magic of Alan Wakeling. I have written a script for this effect for my friend Just Alan, because I think the effect fits him so well. Peter, I agree, Armando's work on the Matrix is nothing short of spectacular! It was real magic to me.
Carlo DeBlasio
<BR>Entertainment specialist <BR>and all around fun guy! |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
I just finished the artwork for Dean Dill's new "No getready" version, and we have named it...
"NANA'S NECKLACE" Dean will be demming it at Magic Live. Don't think it is on his website yet. Check it out.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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J.Warrens Inner circle Canada 1098 Posts |
Hello.
My friend Dan Harlan has added some nice touches to the handling on this, as well as a very beautiful, human presentation about fears. Over dinner, I showed Dan my handling which allows the cords to be shown absolutely whole after the removal of the beads, and BEFORE the strings are "straightened" out again, if that makes sense. Those who've seen his handling will know what I mean. I believe this is the handling he's using now, and I gave him permission to use it in his instructions for his marketed version. It can also be found on his "Premium Blend" DVD's , though it doesn't have the revised handling, since I showed it to him after they were released. Cheers, J.Warrens |
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DanHarlan V.I.P. 998 Posts |
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I showed Dan my handling which allows the cords to be shown absolutely whole after the removal of the beads, and BEFORE the strings are "straightened" out again And do you remember giving me that cool case to carry my beads in? I have been using your work, but I haven't put it into my instructions. As you know, they were complete when you taught me your ending, and I'm just too lazy to do such a major revision! --Dan Harlan |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-06-27 10:53, Harry Murphy wrote: It is definitely referenced in Hocus Pocus Junior, both in the first and second editions, but there is no illustration, which is odd, because the illustration from Scot could have easily been copied or emulated. However, the explanation is clear enough that no illustration is really necessary.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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J.Warrens Inner circle Canada 1098 Posts |
Hi, Dan!
It's great to see you on here. Hope all is well in your world. I re-read my post, and I hope you didn't perceive that I was claiming the handling in your instructions. I remember you saying "dammit! Now I 'm going to have to re-write those instructions, because I'll use this and everybody is going to ask about it because it's not in the written routine!" Good times, and a good laugh. Yeah, I remember the little case, too. I used that for a long time, so I guess you could say it had been "magically" broken in! Eugene was in town a few months back, and I gave him a beautiful hand-tooled leather book cover for writing books. I couldn't think of anything better! I like to give away stuff, something about it feels good. I'm still doing the "Ritual Necklace" routine, and I never leave home without it - it's such a beautiful piece. Honestly, it was your new thoughts on this routine that got me interested again in this old chestnut. I still say, that with the additions we both made to the original, it is MUCH improved. In fact, I can't see it getting much better, but hey, anything's possible! So for all of you who have been following this thread, do yourself a favor: Get Dan's DVD! Not only will you find this monument to a classic, but many other great pieces, too. If memory serves me correctly, the routine is titled: "Ritual Necklace", and is on the "Good Spirits" dvd of the "Premium Blend" series. Whew! - that was a mouthful! OK, I'm shuttin' up now. Cheers, J.Warrens |
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maharajademagia Regular user 127 Posts |
I am sorry, being of Hindu (or Indian) origin; I would beg to differ with all that has been mentioned above. Since this was the first trick I learned I have special regard for it. It is clear that we are getting confused here between two tricks:
1) Indian Beads Trick and 2) Grandmother's Necklace Both the trick are of Hindu origin. Indian beads trick was performed in a modern version by David Copperfield, where he plucks pearls from air and keeps putting them in his hand and then all of them come out stringed. I guess he preferred to use his hands rather then the mouth because of cleanliness. Many Brits detested the Hindu tricks where swallowing and putting things in mouth was involved. I guess it just does not fit into the western ethos. In the original Hindu Street Worker the beads were shown and then put in mouth one by one and swallowed. The performer proceeded to drink water from a lota and then swallowed a thread and then he pulled out a necklace from his mouth. This trick in its gory form was done with needles and later in the west was done either in the needle form or later developed into the razor blade version which of course now is being used though it is doomed to die because no one uses razor blades these days. The original Grand Mother's Necklace was in fact played large, and is called Teen Golo ka Khel. I did not know the small close-up version till Sam Dalal introduced it. In the original version the magician showed three shot putt sized spheres and two ropes. Two volunteers were asked to help. There inspected the ropes and the spheres. The ropes were tested to be strong. Then the mayavi took the ropes and showed how he wanted the volunteers to pass the two ropes through the hole in the sphere. Later each one of the spectators passed the two ropes through the hole. One the three spheres are ropes the spectators are made to go to the extreme ends and hold the ends of the ropes even asking them to roll it around their waist or under the foot. After some by play, each volunteer releases a rope each and a knot is tied on top of the spheres, under the pretext to make it even stronger. Some magicians throw in some dirty jokes and then with big stick the strike is made on the balls and these fall of going every where. Lately even the Grandmother’s Necklace is also being sold by the dealers as the Hindu Beads Trick when in fact these are two different tricks. |
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Hushai Elite user St. Louis, Missouri, USA 459 Posts |
Thank you, Maharajademagia! After all these years I am still wondering about my original question, above, to which you bring a valuable perspective that no one else who answered this could have brought (though I am grateful for all the replies above -- thank you all very much). However: I don't see, in your detailed description of Teen Golo ka Khel, any reference to any patter story regarding Indian philosophy or religion. Is the only patter you have heard that goes along with this effect of the "dirty joke" variety, or does any mayavi ever give it a more serious interpretation? Somehow, the nature of the effect seems to cry out for some philosophical analogy or other to be made. It sounds as though Dan Harlan's "Ritual Necklace" version is an attempt to supply some such analogy, though I do not know Harlan's work on this except through what I read above.
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maharajademagia Regular user 127 Posts |
Hushai, since this was the first magic trick I learned from my mentor who was no other than my maternal uncle I tried to get the spiritual patter from him. Which was not so easy as was old and had lost his hearing power and he was also losing his visual power. Added to all this was the fact that I live miles apart from him. When I visited him I asked him this question which was done my writing my message on a slate. It was the same slate with which he taught the other traditional Hindu trick called the spiritual slates used by the spiritual performers. He finally revered me to some documents from which I got the clue of what the possible patter was. My uncle was not a magician. He was an educationalist and his interest in magic was to teach the innocent that the so called God men used tricks to fool innocent public. Perhaps this part of the story is of less interest to you but I thought it would be good to let you know how I came to the script I am putting here for your and other fellow magician's reference.
The Spiritual Patter of the Hindu Beads Mystery Pointing at the three beaded necklace the magician is sporting he states, “If you have noticed all this time I have been wearing this necklace with three beads. This is a gift which I got from my grandmother and she in turn received it from her grandmother and this practice continued for years. This is why this necklase is called the Grandmother's necklace. I asked my grandmother why this necklace was passed down from generation to generation and she told me that it was an amulet which would protect me from the evil. One day a holy saint visited us and he looked at my necklace and the knot on the necklace opened on its own and I saw that all it had were three beads and two cords. I wondered why our family had been protecting this for so many years, centuries perhaps. The holy man explained. This necklace represents the essence of this universe. As one single piece it represents the Brahaman or the Supreme Being. The five different elements, this necklace consists of, are the panch tatvas or the five elements of which the universe is made: the earth, the water, the air, the fire and the atman or the soul. These are the powers of the creator. The three beads as a single element represent the Supreme Being, but if you look carefully each one of the three beads have mystical symbols on it, this one represents the creative aspect of the Supreme Being or God. As the creator his is knows as Brahma. Now every creation needs to be protected and conserved, as the protector he is called Vishnu. As the life itself, the three aspects of God are: the birth, the life and the death. Everything created in this universe has to go through these three phases. But wise know that nothing can be created o destroyed, so the five elements or tatvas change form and are regenerated. This is the third form of the sanatan trinity. As the re-generator of the decaying creation he is knows as Mahesh. Wise know the only God by three names: Brahama, Vishnu and Mahesh. These two cords to themselves are nothing but for these ends, which make them useful. The four ends represent the four pursharthas – the four spokes of the kalchakra: dharma, arth, kama and moksha. These four pursharthas tie even the Gods who make the supreme Godhead. But when a yuga comes to an end, the great diluvium takes place and all these five elements and the power of the Gods separate and only ciaos persists. Until Mahadeva regenerates and reunite them again and the creation starts again”. He puts the beads back in the cords and puts them back on his neck. Should you want the full patter please PM me. |
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Hushai Elite user St. Louis, Missouri, USA 459 Posts |
Thank you once again, Maharajademagia! This is wonderful, just the sort of answer I was looking for. If it is not too much trouble to send me the full patter by PM, I would be even more in your debt. The entire story is interesting to me, including the details about your magical mentor. I hope other magicians and teachers who are interested in the traditions of India will also find it as fascinating and helpful as I do.
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DanHarlan V.I.P. 998 Posts |
That is fantastic! So great to hear about the origins of this incredible effect. I too always had a feeling that there was so much inherent symbolism in the little beads and cords.
FYI, here's the basic script I was using for many years: Quote:
“I purchased this necklace at a roadside stand selling authentic Native American souvenirs… from an authentic Native American named… Rodriguez. Chief Rodriguez taught me how to perform a spiritual cleansing ritual with it. First, you imagine that the beads are your Pain, Doubt, and Fear and then tie a knot to trap them, just like they are trapped in you.” I used the idea of a Native American souvenir stand because I was performing a lot in the American West/Southwest so it seemed plausible... and funny. The use of Pain, Doubt, Fear was a mnemonic device for me... all I had to remember was PDF! Recently, I updated the manufacturing of my props to be actual necklaces with clasps on the ends and more fashionable beads that might be worn by either men or women in common social settings. You can see the styles on my site... look for "Ritual." I've also been toying with a new script based on String Theory (naturally) and the Large Hadron Collider. It's a cool mixture of real science and mysticism! --Harlan |
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