Speaking of Don Alan...

My Dad (Billy Bishop) and Don Alan were very close friends. They belonged to the same performing club in Chicago called "The three sheeters"...

We used to go to the three sheeter events and see the goings on by Jack Pyle, Jack Kodell, Tony Marks, Barkley Shaw, Jay Marshall and of course Don Alan.

Not being even a one sheeter in those days we of course sat at the kids table. At the kids table would be the performers kids. Usually watching the adults trying to top one another.

It was at the kids table I have met many performers of today. Such as Jack Pyles son who is a successful hypnotist and performes with the stage name John Ivan Palmer...

Don Alans son was also there at times.

Oddly I was performing close up magic in the magic castle close up room and who do I meet?

Don Alans son... We had a short talk about the old days and the three sheeters. he was there to donate some of Dons props to the magic castle including the big nut. With that Don's son pulled out the big nut for all to see...

Hopefully they will make a Don Alan display with these props at the magic castle.

@BrucUK

Forgot to mention..
Dai Vernon did a great job doing the C&B at a Dick Cavett show way back, sitting down..
I've seen him doing it sitting down a lot of times and it was as entertaining and good as anything can be -as well as his final loads where very deceptive-, so it is possible to do, but still I think one should do a standup routine..
Se Gazzo, Cellini and a lot of others..

I got the idea that you were trying to do just that.

That's basically what Bob Read did with his Penultimate Cups and Balls. He took the Vernon routine and made it his own.

So did Gazzo.

Sometimes we stand upon the shoulders of giants, and sometimes we sit on their laps.

Well said. I thinks this is great. It's interesting. There were times when I thought I was still doing an effect the way I learned it but I go back and already it's different and I didn't even know it.

A cowboy that does martial arts? That's like Jackie Chan and Owen Wilson (Shanghai Noon/Knights) rolled into one!

Don actually did the Chop Cup both ways, standing and sitting. At trade shows, he worked standing up, and he did the Chop Cup in that position. There are no disadvantages to either way, really, as long as everything is positioned properly.

One of the great things about working Renaissance Festivals was that I could work from a gibeciere without it looking strange. The mouth of the pouch should be below the edge of the top of the table.

Hello All,

I for one have been doing the Chop Cup for years. Although not the Don Alan version. At the risk of being in the wrong forum,or starting a new string; I sit a lot. I work many different venues and sit when I can, it is easier than most think. All my private parties are sit down shows. I book them this way. Just keep your options open, you can do what you want.

Bill, -as I never had the pleasure to se Don Alan do that routine standing up- can you let us have any info re wherefrom he did/got the final loads when standing up?
(Knowning he neither there could resist banging his cup hard on the table -he did explain the *why* in his book and on other occations and it makes sense- I'm pretty sure he didn't use his trouserspockets.

Also, I never would imagine he used a pouch -which would not have been a bad choice for that, but it wasn't his style- but my sneaky guess is, under these conditions, he simply used kind of a serv*nt* behind the table?
Right?

At trade shows, he had a table that had an area underneath the top that he could get his loads from -- kind of an extended basement "servante." The table top was basically a box that was open on one end, and that was the back side of the table, i.e. the part that was facing him.

THANX Bill, that cleared it up for me and gets my mind to rest re this..

It's something similar I had expected..

Meaning, the stand-up method he used for the final loads, wasn't applicable to walk around situations, working standup at restaurant-tables..
Nevertheless, no doubt, what he used/did there, was tops of what's possible...
The only other practical solution for walk-around table work, would have been a pouch, but that is normally not within the style of *restaurant*-performers..
Again..food for thought..loading large tennisballs (2 of them) in a standup situation/restaurant in a Chop Cup routine, still is a challenge
Smaler loads, no prob though..

Werner, if you like sponges for final loads there are holders that keep them just under the hem of your jacket. I believe that there are instructions for making these holders in Wilson's book.

Well my friend TBH, I have one firm opinion on this!
NEVER use Sponges as final loads..IMHO it would be plain silly!
Thing is the object(s) has/have to be SOLID!
This means in the end, you can replace one object into the Cup and thereafter the second one, banging on it with one hand to show they are solid objects..
Also, as we are doing this *close-up*, there always is a spectator that might -and can - grab the load and so it is NOT good, if that load is a collapsable one..
So please, my advice is NEVER to looad a 'sponge*..apart from this, to do a *good* load, the object has to have some *weight*, but NO sound
Please think about it..only my thoughts, but I've done the Chop Cup ever since 1984..and latest yesterday..it blew away the audience..they grabbed the load and tryed to fit it into the cup..
NO WAY
Please drop that sponge-load..you'll find out later -if not now- it is not a good idea..

Werner, your advice is timely. I haven't used the sponge holder for anything but my sponge balls yet. I was toying with the idea for a final load for cups and balls. Now I think I'll just turn my attention elsewhere.

Thanks for the warning.

Well..just think about it firmly..
Re holder for sponges...oh well..nobody needs them..
I'll never forget the advice gotten from Ken Brooke when being a youngster..
The best place for all this stuff is ones own pocket..
We're talking here about close-up/walk around magic and NOT stagework!
Whenever in doubt re my advice, se a videotape showing Slydini or Albert Goshman doing the sponges..also they there doing sit-down magic, everything apart from Slydini's la**ing part can be converted to stand up magic..
Simply load the sponges from your jacketpocket (NOT having a flap and being of some firm material, NOT a soft one/jacket)or even your trouserspocket..

As an example my favourite *little* trick/routine, when being on holiday at hot places -when NOT wearing a jacket- and in the mood of fooling/entertaining somebody, is to produce a coin out of a bagless purse (purseframe), frame in right pocket, coin in left..using the Johnny Paul sublety after both hands have done their job..as you know right hand *first* out..aso. aso..
Therafter a flourish with the frame, frame returned to right pocket and then doing a coinvanish in the action of reaching over to the spectator to give/handle him the coin..
(NO closed fist for this..se Al Goshman)

It vanishes, act surprised, searching for it, produce it from his shirt, coin in trousersfold vanish, coin in left pocket penetrates trousers..
That's a start..just to introduce you to the power of loading from your pocket..there are lots of oportunities to f.ex. steal/load a large coin almost at anytime during a such routine..still from the trouserspocket.

One word of advice..ONLY use your jacketpockets, IF your hand can leave it smoothly without fumbling..
THAT solely depends on the material of your jacket and the opening of your jacketpocket..

I've seen disasters by even well established magicians..I dare to mention one name..Marlo..he was unlucky to have a nicey looking, but useless -for that purpose-jacket wearing when using his jacketpocket to load stuff..a disaster..
He had to shake his hand and so the whole jacketpocketside, to get his hand out of the pocket..all attention of every single viewer so was where it never should have been..

Yuur hand(s) have to enter and leave without the slightest hesitation, meaning a jacketpocket without a flap and rather *stiff* material wherefrom the jacket is made, does the job better then *soft* cotton/material..
You'll find out, when you play with these things..
Still...good luck..and don't use any holder at all for close-up/walk around spongball routines..holders are for stagework and there they are great..but, most certainly NOT needed in the mentioned situations..

Just give it a thought..I don't mind if some do disagree..
I stick to what I've had success with and no problems..I had those earlier, when trying the things I now *warn* about..