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gerard1973 Special user Michigan, U.S.A. 688 Posts |
I am new to silk magic and am having problems determining what silk size to use.
I know that silks come in several different sizes: 6", 9", 12", 18", 24", and 36". The size question may be fully covered in Rice's Silk Encyclopedia, but I do not have it yet. Here is what I have picked up on my own from reading about silk magic: A Magi can use either a 9" square silk or a 18" diamond cut silk for a t***b tip routine. 36" silks are used only for Zombie Foulards. I keep reading a lot about 18" and 24" silks being used in most silk routines. So I think that the 18" and 24" silks are the most common size used. The last thing that I have picked up was to use the largest silk that you can. I'm still confused about what size to use. Is there a guideline to use for determining what size of silk to use? Thanks.
"Confusion is not magic."
Dai Vernon |
Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4850 Posts |
I think size is whatever you are comfortable with in most cases. I personally don't use anything smaller than 18". Most magicians performing 20th century silks use 12" or 18" silks, but I use 24" inch ones. They are more visible on stage. Of course, if you're going to vanish a silk using a TT, you can't use an 18" silk so the effect has much to do with the size of the silk used. Your body size may have something to do with choice of silks as well. If you're a junior magician, say, 10 or 11 years old, using 24" inch silks may look out of place.
Zombie uses a larger foulard, but 36" isn't necessary. If you're doing dove magic, you don't want to use 36" silks.
Where the magic begins
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
I use 36" for production routines (printed style as well as solid colours), as well as 18" silks (in a chain). So they can be used for other things besides Zombie.
- Donald.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
For stage and platform shows I use mostly 18" and 24" silks. In productions I sometimes use 36". I even have a few routines that need smaller silks, so I may use some 12" also. I think it depends upon the setting and the effect you're doing.
Regan
Mister Mystery
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
This is a question that will even cause magicians to disagree with themselves. There are many things to consider.
One is simply arm length. If it takes both hands to show the silk, the silk is of limited use. For most of us that means that 18" and 24" silks will be the most useful. Second measure: Hold a silk up by one corner. The best size for a stealing silk is the size that has the two corners at your elbow. (Remember that normally about four inches of silk from the tip will fold over your hand.) For an average size adult male that will likely be a 24" silk. Then we get into what is the silk supposed to do? A larger silk will cover a larger load. A smaller silk will be easier to vanish and produce. Who is watching and where are they? On stage most silks appear much smaller than they are. Therefore, I would never use a silk less than 18" on stage for anything but bait. (I won't explain "bait" here.) For walk-around, there are times when a 12" will do for color changes, etc. At trade show booths I still use 18" silks. That is not really walk-around and I have an "office" as small as that might be. On stage I use about half and half 18" and 24" silks. I like 18" silks for productions because they will allow me to move from one routine to the next with what I have in my hands. How does it look? There is nearly twice as much silk in a 24" silk as in an 18" silk. (That is 4 sq. feet versus 2.25 sq. feet.) It is twice the bulk. Since silk knots are essentially all the same size, 12" silks tied together really look small. However, two 18" silks tied together look much larger than one 24" silk. Two 36” silks tied together results in something taller than most adult males and creates its own problems. A 36” silk is four times the bulk of an 18” silk. That’s rather piggish for hiding space! The good news is that you can use virtually every silk you can get your hands on for something. Even old magicians have a hard time ever retiring a silk. They are typically good investments in magic inventory for a working magician. For someone just entering silk magic, the best advice I could give is to start with at least six 18” silks with two each of three different colors. There must be a thousand things you can do with that. I cannot in good conscience ever advise someone beginning silk magic to buy 6” and 9” silks. (Use a Kleenex.) Likewise, I would recommend buying 24” silks before buying 12” silks. Rarely will a beginner have a use for a 36” plain silk. Another “Bobism” is that I always recommend buying a pair of silks at a time. That is especially true of printed silks. It gives you a whole extra set of possibilities when the produced card silk, butterfly silk, clown silk, or whatever vanishes and reappears elsewhere. Nobody expects you to have two of them, not even other magicians! Enjoy silk magic and so will your audience. Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
gerard1973 Special user Michigan, U.S.A. 688 Posts |
Wow! Buying your silks in pairs.
What a great idea, Bob! That way you will always have a spare silk. That's pretty ingenious.
"Confusion is not magic."
Dai Vernon |
fccfp Special user NJ 563 Posts |
Bob,
Just re-read your post. I guess you are saying "size does matter"?
A.K.A. Jay The Magician
www.jaythemagician.com |
Dougini Inner circle The Beautiful State Of Maine 7130 Posts |
I use the size silk that fits what I'm doing.
Close-up, I carry 9" silks, and a TT, and small (Simplex-type) Tenyo dye tube (came with their Color-Changing silk set). I discarded the poor quality 6" silks that came with it, and use a finer silk I got from Hank Lee (got a package of a DOZEN, at a great price!). Also, I carry a larger dye tube, sometimes, with the Rice 12" silks (when going from white to "Sunburst"). For a parlor venue, I'll use the 18" Rice solids. This is where the Palmo is most useful. Packs small, plays BIG. Even close-up, I can wow you with the Palmo. The 18" and larger are best for 20th Century and Sympathetic Silks, but I can also do those with the smallest silks, if I'm asked to do those in intimate surroundings. Just remember, the larger and more colorful your silks, the larger your audience can be. Even the Square Circle is kicked up a notch with quality silks! Doug |
Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Fccfp,
Boy! Do you know how to hurt a guy! (In magic we create illusions.) Doug, That's right on target. Use the right size and weight silks for the job and the audience. And I feel like it is a case of "the bigger the better". Put another way, get away with as much as you can! (We are in the show off business.) Doug, Since you are the music man, why not reverse the dye tube silks and go from SunBurst to blank? You could sing "Ain't No Sunshine When She's Gone"! (OK, Give me a quarter and I'll stay away. A little while.) Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
What size silk to use?
As the magicians' silk importer, I only get this question several times a week. But the responses above make sense. What we did not do is get into using streamers instead of squares. Don't overlook the opportunities. They look huge compared to squares taking the same space. The math is easy. Just match area. As an example, a streamer 4"x36" will substitute for a square silk 12"x12". both are 144 square inches. Give it a try. Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
I will add something here that I have never heard anyone else say outload before. Any size silk looks basically one size smaller on stage. A 12" looks like 9". A 18" looks like a 15". A 4" streamer looks like a 2" streamer. etc. I think you get the idea.
As for the size, it always will depend on what you are trying to do with it. Production silks can be larger if produced from apparatus than from the hands. If you are concealing something, you need a heavier momme weight. If you are packing it into a tight space, you will need a thinner momme. Every situation and need is different. But as Bob said, there is a use of every size, weight or shape of silk (otherwise, they would not have been made). Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
This also gets us back to a misconception about 36" silks. Essentially, only pros use 36" silks. Not only are they highly visible productions that really take about the room of a deck of cards, they set the tone with color and motion for a flashy show better using the stage area and, even better, give misdirection and cover to huge body loads. (Held by the corner, they diagonally drap below the knee for even better misdirection! Don't underestimate the value of MOTION! The loose end of the silk is the last motion.)
Frankly, silk makes poor zombie cloths! They flow too loosely and due to the lack of weight, tend to drag across the ball and gimmick sometimes causing interuptions in timing. Cheaper, heavier and more opaque synthetics work better as zombie cloths. (For most of us 30" works better than 36" also.) --- Boy! That was tough for the magicians' silk importer to say! --- Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
I Bob, I love 36" silks! They are just so big and beautiful, and I can't resist using them sometimes!
Mister Mystery
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
But Regan, you are a PRO!
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TheGreatNancini Veteran user Ohio 373 Posts |
When it comes to determining which silks I use for a certain effect, I always try to use the largest ones I can fit into the prop I am going to produce them from.
Because there are so many really creative uses for silk productions, I always keep a good supply of nearly every size on hand. Of course every now and then Matthew and I will find a need for some we do not have and then I have to call Bob Sanders, who always comes through and has exactly what I need and ships them to me immediately. 36" White are my favorites and I usually order those by the dozen from Bob. ~Nanci |
Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
A trend I'm beginning to see in magicians who attend magic conventions is the movement to 24" and 36" silks.
Among other things, it tends to show that the magician has developed his own show rather than just using the 12" silks that often come with cheap packaged tricks that expose how the trick is done buy don't really give you the better and larger silks you need to professionally perform the effect. Congratulations! I certainly approve of the professionalism. It helps us all. Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
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