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tropicalpenguin Veteran user 396 Posts |
In Terms of actual price, how much cheaper can it be if you buy the plans and build an illusion yourself, rather than buy it from a builder?
-The penguin has spoken
-How could 52 pieces of cardboard ever bring so much joy? |
the Sponge Inner circle Atlanta 2771 Posts |
Depends, how much is your time worth? How much are your mistakes worth? How good of a cabinet maker/carpenter are you? Do you have all the required tools, how much are they worth? etc., etc.
s |
Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
In just about every case I can imagine, the cost of the materials alone will be less than the price of a new (finished) illusion from a builder.
That being said, you are also compensating the builder for their expertise in building and their labour. Before you build, think about whether you have enough expertise to pull off a good looking and properly working prop. And whether you have better things to do with your time (some like fabricating, some do not). - Donald.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
The Sponge is on the right track with the comment on tools. You will need to have a fairly well stocked workshop to build anything with any complexity. There are illusions that can be built with little more than a saw, a drill, and a screwdriver, but most have the need for more specialized tools, if you want to do it right.
Something else you will find... don't make the mistake of saying it will cost this much in lumber, and then I'll need some hinges and stuff. In many case, the hardware costs far exceed the lumber costs... and don't forget sandpaper, paints, primers, glue, extra blades and bits when you break them, etc. If you are already tooled up and have the working knowledge for construction projects, then you are all set. I suspect this may not be the case, or you would probably already know your answers. Best bet... get a set of good plans; not some sketch of an illusion, but real working plans... something that has already passed the muster. Find a friend who has a fairly tricked out workshop and then go do some price checking at your local lumber yard and hardware stores. Get a complete list of materials and their cost before you begin. The little things casually put in the insignificant pile as things you'll pick up later will often nickle and dime you to death. If you are able to locate someone that has all the necessary tools, you will save a ton of money. Most people that build, naturally invest in tools with the intent of using them repeatedly. That's how cost is justified. It is possible to save money by building yourself, but probably only with those considrations. If you simply want to add an illusion to your show, you're probably better buying a ready-made. There are lots of great illusion builders out there.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
Good advice so far. We tend to think in terms of "price," which is what we pay for materials, instead of "cost," which is what always ends up biting us in the you-know-what. The hardware, the extra tools, the dry runs that didn't work out, the repeated trips to the store, the time spent, the other stuff we can't do in the meantime, and so forth, all come into the picture.
This wasn't obvious to me when I was starting out building props either, but it's very obvious now. I have a nice shop and I love to build stuff, but I have to put a price on my time too. I've made many magic props over because I didn't like the way they first came out, and I've ended up taking far longer on others than I ever expected to. It's been lots of fun and a great learning experience, but the "cost" has been high. If you really like to build things, then by all means go for it; otherwise you might be better off buying your first few illusions. Good luck!
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Georgefl38,
Good post! As you said, if you really like to build things, then by all means go for it. A certain amount of expense can be chalked up to "expensive hobby". Hopefully much of the "setup" investment can find uses for other, perhaps, non-magic related projects, too. We are all, hopefully, multi-dimensional creatures. Regarding another comment you made, I had to laugh. I could open a museum of prototypes, second guesses, re-dos, and miserable failures. It would take hours to do the tour.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
Michael Messing Inner circle Knoxville, TN 1817 Posts |
Here's an example of how building it yourself may not save you as much as you think. I decided to build a "DJ" style road case for my chair suspension. (A DJ case is the type with a grey carpet exterior and without the heavy aluminum angle used on a true ATA road case. Here's an example of a small one: http://www.zzounds.com/item--GNDAC100S.)
Anyway, by the time I bought the metal corners, the continuous hinge for the lid, the heavy duty latches, the casters, the proper protective foam, etc., I spent more than $250 on the case and that's not including wood because I had enough scrap material around for that. The same case from a builder probably would have cost $450 so I saved $200 (actually less because of the wood cost not factored in) but I spent about 4 days building it. Granted, I'm not the fastest woodworker in the world but, still, I could have done one or two shows in that time and made more money than I saved. I like building stuff and am proud of the finished product so I enjoyed doing it but I have to keep in mind the fact that I'm not really saving much. There have been many times when I did the math and realized it was cheaper to buy than to build. |
Leland Stone Inner circle 1204 Posts |
Magicmikey:
Your experience reminded me of one my father (a Tennessean, BTW) had working at a window plant. There, tons of certain components were extruded from large-diameter aluminum billets. Great And Powerful Management Types decided to save money by producing their own logs from scrap and then sawing them into billets in-house; several hundred thousand dollars and a new foundry later, they discovered said billets cost $0.02/lb more than those being purchased from outside vendors. As a bonus, a large percentage of the home-made billets were unusable because of internal voids. Buy or build -- such a maddening dilemma. I wish I could recall the name of the Roman philosopher who so neatly summarized that madness thusly: "Men who love building have no need of other enemies." Sincerely, Leland Edward Stone |
Dave Dorsett Veteran user Macomb, Illinois 345 Posts |
One thing to remember- if a builder has a long record, he/she has probably developed some adaptations that can allow an existing "set" piece to be a little different than others that have come before.
From experience I can tell you that builders like to be able to throw in "wouldn't it be cool if" angles to illusions they build. Many times that allows them to make more sales in the future.
Dave Dorsett
Douglas~Wayne Illusioneering |
Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
I read an interview with Teller once. I think it was in an old "Genii" magazine. He said that when he and Penn create a new illusion, they budget for at least three prototypes! Remember he and Penn don't do the building themselves; they hire professionals. I can also tell you from bitter personal experience that there is nothing quite so sad as building an illusion to perfection, and being unable to use it after a botched job of painting and finishing.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
Scruffy the Clown Loyal user Coldwater,MI 233 Posts |
I just finished my second illusion a couple of weeks ago, Run Rabbit run.
I built it out of Quarter inch masonite, and used 1/2 inch pine for the spacers, 3/4 inch for the base. I'm not sure if I built the mechanism right. It works extremely well, and in my opinion, looks about 20 times better than Mak's. We painted the rabbits and gave them a more cartoonish appearance, I know in my case, I had the masonite and pine (and the tools from my guitar repair business including the knowledge to paint it properly, I think I have about twenty bucks in mine. If I make any more I know I need to refine the "running mechanism". |
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