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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
Quote: You got the essence, without being aware of it
On 2004-10-20 20:41, k wrote: There is nobody one just can call: The Best.. That is due to a lot of GREAT coinworkers also have specialities, which they do *the best* compared with other well known and great names.. Nobody does ALL of his effects better then *the best* re that particulary effect one guy does better then anybody else. Therefor it is impossible to answer a question like the above.. One can't point out anybody to be *the best*, no matter in what branch of magic, what one can do however is to find *the best* for one particular routine, be it in coinmagic, cardmagic or any other branch of this funny bizz. Example: The best re the retention of vision pass and its applications f.ex., is Mikey Silver!
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
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k Loyal user Marseille 283 Posts |
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You got the essence, without being aware of it ------------------------------------------------- hear! hear! I totally agree. they all were best at what they did best... (to sum up) cheers Werner!
I'm just a blind Con that lost his I...
remember, Magic's everywhere... ("Your are the magic !" - Albert Goshman) "Voici mon secret. Il est très simple. On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux" St-Exupéry |
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wsduncan Inner circle Seattle, WA 3619 Posts |
Amen Jon,
Sol Stone is a hidden treasure. His DVD from MYMagic is a treasure and a disappointment. It's teaches wonderful lessons if one studies it but doesn't show enough of his coin magic... |
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joef90 New user 51 Posts |
This is an unanswerable question.There is so much tallent out there that it would be unfair to pick a best!
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Dan Watkins Inner circle PA 3028 Posts |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Dan all the names mentioned, are of course excellent choices ,however that is before Mickey silver came on the scene...
vinny |
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Dan Watkins Inner circle PA 3028 Posts |
They still are excellent choices even after Mickey.
Now that people have seen Mickey, they can add him to the list. I just watched Mickey's demo tape 2 again last night. His technique is definately fun to watch. I don't think there is "one" best. I have seen so many really good coin performances over the years. A best "list" is more appropriate! |
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Magius Regular user 136 Posts |
A bit late to point out perhaps, but Denis Behr's my personal role model because of the long fingers. Watch his video, Houseguest for example, his palming is incredible. It may seem very normal for you, but, for your information, People with fingers like that, such as me, have trouble palming. From cards to finger palm. The windows in my fingers are hugeeven if I try to squeeze them together with my other hand, they are still showing. This disadvantage I'd have to avoid by tilting my hand slightly, which makes it much harder to palm things.
I've almost given up on finger palming until watching Denis Behr. I thought, he, who has thin fingers too, can do it, so can I. So you can say he's my inspiration. So that's my tribute. I like Mikey Silver very much, but I don't like him that much as a performer. He continuously did the same sort of action for several minutes. It may be because I'm a magician, but his ramsey subtlety seems very obvious after a while, not free enough. Also his brilliant SUV, in my opinion, is not perfect. I say this as an observer, not in comparison. About whos best, I can't very much decided, besides, what does it matter? Watching people who are better than me makes me lose all my ethusiasm. =(
Neophyte.
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Marco S. Inner circle 1017 Posts |
Hey Mike, I agree. I like Sankey too.
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Sankey is a bit fast and furious for me, but he is very good to be sure. Mostly I think, he is different in the way he presents his magic. "Difference" is a key element here in trying to figure out just who is best or among the "better."
Anyway, I've seen the lists and the individuals mentioned and all very good to be sure. Many have progressed the craft along and enlightened most of us in one way or another, whether we liked them or not. But it's all a matter of taste, some like rock & roll others like jazz, etc. Some like organized, systematic approaches at presenting things, others like it fast and furious coming out of everywhere all at once. Magic is like this too. You have your old guard (and those that guard them) and then you have the new-jacks that can do amazing things and maybe never heard of a Syldini or Goshman. I think while folks can recognize talent, they can be reluctant to give the newbie any part of the kingdom without him proving himself in traditional ways, i.e., books, tapes, performances, intellectual discussions and clubs, presentations, manuscripts, the word of other noted magicians, and now add in websites and dvds as the latest strain of acceptable ID cards and coins. Reality is that you can know little of these greats and still come up with something totally unique and do it better than anyone else, maybe them included. If enough people see you do it, well then you have the opportunity to be called the best too. Actually, we're watching that happen in a big way right before our very eyes with a magician right amongst us in one Mickey Silver. Like him or lump him, the guy is exceptional, not a registered member of the club and carries his own bag and shines his own shoes. But he also can do things with a coin that puts him amongst the very best out there. And believe me, if he wasn't they'd say that it in a big way too. But he's making his steps and we'll see. As one of the Café bretheren, I'm cheering for him. I notice that there is an academia out there that jockeys what's ok and what's not. This has always been the case in just about every discipline and magic is no different in that regard. But there are all kinds of participants in the realm, some are great magicians others not so great, dabblers, Historians young and old, some that help others be better, and some are just critics. I would say that in some ways all are important, as if you can make it through all of that, the know-it-alls and those that don't know squat, the critics, the cheats and the haters, the fans and the intelligentsia, then somewhere in the mix the very best evolve or maybe survive - and those that do are always exceptional. Just realize that you are looking at some of the very best right now, just that time must pass testing their mettle and forging them (or not) into what others will one day say that they are or are not. Personally, I enjoy them all big and small, great and not so great. And I find that critics are usually never as good as the people they criticize, and are mostly good at simply critiquing. You know what they say about "Oppinions," but there is oppinion and then there is "Informed Oppinion." Perhaps too much of either can be a bit much at times. But it's all interesting as we take an assortment of left and right turns toward just exactly what's what. But like I pretty much said above here, everyone has a part to play in what and who is good, better, best. That goes for performers and audiences, as both most certainly thrive on the other.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Dan Watkins Inner circle PA 3028 Posts |
I didn't really notice any critics here, just names of good coin magicians.
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Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
I do know a very few really great and outstanding coinworkers never been mentioned here !
And don't worry, I'm NOT one of them!!!
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
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Dan Watkins Inner circle PA 3028 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-10-22 02:05, Magius wrote: Watching people who are better than me inspires me. |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Perhaps the critics are amongst those not named as supposed good coin magicians. It's not always about what you see. It's the punch you don't see that hits you the hardest most times. Critics are amongst us as they are amongst all things. Anyway, my post doesn't just speak of critics. Interesting that lone word amongst so many others prompted your short response here. Oh well, on the other hand I guess most of it was ok... Good talk just the same.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Dan Watkins Inner circle PA 3028 Posts |
Marion,
When I read your lengthy post it seemed to be in response to a criticism, I had not read any. That was all I was pointing out. Actually after the fact I did read that Magius’ wrote an opinion about Denis Behr and Mickey. His opinion on Mickey’s performance style was critical, so my response was wrong, I see now there was a criticism. I had only skip read his post before reading yours and I missed this. So I was wrong in my subsequent post. Sorry. Regarding Magius’ criticism, I don’t think it is fair to judge Mickey’s performance style on a demo video where he is simply showcasing his SUV over and over again. Yes the Ramsay subtlety is overused and obvious in the demo – but that is just a demo, I doubt Mickey does the SUV over and over holding Ramsay subtlety in actual application within a routine. In normal use I don’t think he would be over doing it. Regarding Mickey’s SUV itself – he indicates that it is not perfect. No move is, or it wouldn’t be a move, it would be real magic! The only thing that I can even see that could come close to critical in his technique is the popping up of the index finger that David Roth’s teachings specifically say to avoid. With Mickey’s technique I believe the index finger and thumb are the primary “moving” fingers and it is necessary for his technique. I personally think his SUV looks fabulous, Mickey’s timing and use of it is as close to perfect as one can be, and his technique offers advantages over other retention types that keep the index finger more still. Pointing out that moves aren't perfect is moot. No move is. Mickey's is by far one of the best I have seen. Since you asked for a longer response on your entire post – here it is: (as you can see I agree with most of what you say). Sankey is not your style, but good. (I have the same opinion) Differences are what people use to decide favorites. (I agree – however I believe differences are only one factor of many used to make decisions.) The current list of magicians provided is good. (I agree) People have different tastes. (I agree) There are old guys and new guys that are good. (I agree) New guys may not get recognition without proving themselves. (I agree) New guys can come up with good stuff. (I agree) If enough people see the new guy’s magic, eventually you will be known as one of the best if his magic warrants it. (I agree) Mickey Silver is a new guy and can do good things with coins. (I agree). There is academia out there that have opinions (I agree). There are people with broad based knowledge and background to draw opinions from. There are people that lack background and broad knowledge. Both types of people express opinions (I agree). All opinions are important to some degree (I agree). You enjoy the good and bad (I typically don’t enjoy the bad). Critics are usually never as good as those they criticize (I don’t necessarily agree with this – depends on who is doing the critique). Everyone has opinions – informed ones and uninformed ones – either can be too much. (I prefer informed ones). Everyone decides who is great – both performers and audience. -- This depends on what we are asking. If we are asking who is the best performer – I’d say the audience opinion is more important. If we are asking about whom magicians feel is the best – we will always get varied responses. We all are of different ages and different likes and dislikes. Some guys like theatrical coin magic with grand stories that accompany it, some hate knuckle busting and like easy coin magic, some guys like routines with giant fists of coins, some guys like the very simple and direct. Some people hate cheesy stories, some like only very flashy visual stuff, some like extremely hard sleights and get pleasure out of watching those adept at difficult sleights. Magician’s opinions will always vary. We may be looking at greats now that have yet to pass the test of time (I agree). |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Andrew Goldehirch was not mentioned either..
As for Mickey He is the most creative coin man today.. No one does what he can do . the rest of the field including me are just doing the same moves that evrey one else does .. I know him personaly he has yet to show the magic community his s origionaly stuff hes the only one I know that does a click pass with five coins and his methoed is completely differnt .. he vanishes a coin with one hand and ther is no finger or hand movment...... thes e are som examples vinny |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
You're pretty "lengthy" here yourself...but good post Dan. Guess I was right, most of it was ok. And might I say most succinctly in this brief response, "I agree...mostly. But agree even moreso with Vinny here regarding Mickey and what he's brought to the table."
*Oh, and I didn't say Mickey Silver was "good," I said he was "exceptional." Now just how did you miss that?
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Dan Watkins Inner circle PA 3028 Posts |
Marion - Lengthy response to lenghty posts I'm paraphrasing on my quotes too
I personally can't give Mickey the title of most creative coin man today only because I have only seen a small sampling of Mickey. I like what I have seen thus far and look forward to seeing everything Vinny testifies to. Vinny has the enviable position to personally know Mickey and know what he has in store. I don't. I do have high expectation for Mickey though and I am rootin for him. I am a Mickey Silver fan thus far. |
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