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Jorge Gonzalvo New user Spain 71 Posts |
I totally AGREE with you Pablo. Good opinion.
Jorge |
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Tercero New user Spain 51 Posts |
Me too!!! Pableras
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Jorge Gonzalvo New user Spain 71 Posts |
Anyway, I would like to remark the fact that it´s not the same that lying with the camera, than "helping" with the camera.
However, I don´t understand why people wants to compare Blaine and Copperfield, when I think it´s not the same kind of magic and artists. You can compare, maybe Copperfield, Burton, Pendragons, and people like that (and I don´t know if it´s good to compare people in magic), but in my sincere opinion, Blaine does not have nothing to do with Copperfield. Regards |
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da5id Loyal user Dublin, Ireland 268 Posts |
Quote:
I don´t mind if his name is Keyword: Deception. All magic is deception, it's just that in this case you think the deception went too far. What I would like to know is how does this deception differ (and is therefore worse) than the deception of sleight of hand or stage illusions or any other trick? |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-08-29 12:49, magicjames1 wrote: This is true, Mr. Blaine never does a whole effect just by camera trickery because he never does a whole effect. He edits everything down so tightly that he ends up performing only "the good parts" version of whatever trick he's performing. Watching David Blaine's televised magic shows is like watching a comedy club special where they only show the punchlines to the jokes.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Harry Murphy Inner circle Maryland 5445 Posts |
It’s a TV show! It is not a Magic show. It uses the techniques of TV not magic to create the show. Don’t forget a TV program is designed to sell products to a certain demographic. As an aside (and often a secondary concern) it is also designed to entertain that demographic. It attracts and speaks to that demographic, a portion of whom are now attracted to the “Power” of magic.
Let us not be confused. Blaine’s specials are about the magic of TV technology NOT the technology of Magic! His is Reality Magic in the same way that Survivor is real life! NOT! The question the producers (and sponsors) of the program ask is not “is the Magic Pure?” but rather “does this show attract and sell to the population we want to attract and sell to?” (Yes, I know this is a gross oversimplification, but you get the point!). In a, clearly unscientific and non-comprehensive review of the “David Blaine” topic postings on several magic forums, it seems that a number of teenage boys want to be (like) David Blaine. Specifically, they want to learn his tricks in the belief that it will give them his “cool”. Initially they are not interested in any other magic trick. In their minds it seems as if they believe that if David didn’t do it on one of his specials then it isn’t worth doing! And that is OK for a start. I suspect that these are the young guys that can’t play a guitar and join a rock band, or play a sport and thus gain the accolades they seek. Many of them will discover, rather quickly, that it takes work and discipline to perform magic and get the reactions that David does. As a result many of those will return to their “X” Box and Play Station –2’s! However, others will be turned on by the magic they are learning and study and learn more and master the skills necessary to excel in this performing art. I suspect that a small number of those will stick to it and become the great magicians of tomorrow. I believe that the next Copperfield, Burton, Blaine, is in the works right now. At least I hope so. Is David Blaine a magician? In my mind, yes. Is he a good, skilled, versatile magician? I suspect so. I have seen him perform on a couple of talk shows and he seems to be able to perform some nice and strong effects. Are his TV specials magic shows? No! Not in the sense we are used to. Is he helping or hurting magic? Probably a little of both and really only time will tell. Right now he is mentioned and/or discussed by magicians more often than any other individual magician. P.T. Barnum once said that any mention of your name, in the newspapers (today call it the media), whether it is good or bad, is better than no mention at all.
The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
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noncom Regular user Birmingham, UK 125 Posts |
Could I just note (as I did in the Sidewalk Shuffle forum and got told off for it!) that IF anyone here is interested in reading the David Blaine book Mysterious Stranger, then it is available in the UK from http://www.thebookpeople.co.uk at £5 plus postage.
I wouldn't have paid £18 for it myself, but at a fiver it's not a bad evening's reading.
It ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it - Bananarama.
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ALEXANDRE Inner circle 3024 Posts |
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--------------------------------- I agree. How many of us would be comfortable having someone watch what we do a hundred times using slomo and the pause button? Quote:
Ron wrote: Are you serious? The reactions were indeed legit. Haven't you had them before without resorting to telling your audience you have a "deal with Buena Vista"? If you haven't you shouldn't be here. I believe everyone in here at one time or another has had those same reactions. Generally speaking I also think we shouldn't be talking crap about other performers, especially David Blaine and Copperfield who have been responsinble for generating more "calls" for the professionals among us and MORE MONEY IN OUR POCKETS! Please don't be naive in thinking that these Davids (among other pros in the public eye) have not created more interest in what we do.
HERE'S A SECRET ...
http://www.lybrary.com/mystic-alexandre-m-354.html |
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Ron Giesecke Special user Redding, Ca. 947 Posts |
I don't believe I ever did say that David Blaine did not foster an interest. Nor did I say that the reactions are false. All I said was that the intrigue created by cameras on the street guarantees that the histrionics will come lilting around (read: The "he aint right!,he aint right! he aint even right!" girl.)
As far as the personal thing goes Alexandre, I get plenty of reaction. I was also doing it before the Al Gore of Magic reinvented the internet of levitations. I will say one thing. His book (whoever wrote it) is thoroughly interesting. I do happen to think Blaine's grip on the historical side is commendable. I don't hate the guy. I'm just a little weary of busting him on the crane trick. Take care, Ron |
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ALEXANDRE Inner circle 3024 Posts |
I insist that you don't need the "camera around" to get comments like "he ain't right". I, like many others around here, have had similar comments in private performances.
If you had really read the book you would've known that the book was written with the help of Larry "Ratso" Sloman, who David himself says that "Without ... it's highly unlikely that this book would ever have been completed" David is not a writer, he's an entertainer. Content though is all his and his close friends. As a final note, your shots on the guy are unnecessary.
HERE'S A SECRET ...
http://www.lybrary.com/mystic-alexandre-m-354.html |
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Ron Giesecke Special user Redding, Ca. 947 Posts |
Alexandre,
You prefer to attack me rather than the issue. I thought I just finished complimenting the guy (aside from what I thought was a cute analogy). I actually like him to a point. I just wish he hadn't handed the rest of us (who actually invested in our art, advertise, and perform formal shows) an anvil, that's all. I believe there is plenty of room for criticism here. I have read the book, by the way. I just didn't venture the erudite excess to read the fine print. I do not own it, however. And I do not deny his gargantuan influence--David Copperfield has even had to make an awkward foray into street magic on his latest special, and Lance Burton is currently making a special surrounding this premise as well. In reality, I'm glad he came around. I prefer the minimalist approach to magic anyway. Please have a nice day. We just choose to disagree on the larger points, that's all. --Ron |
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manix Loyal user 242 Posts |
What damage would a "Blaine is a Fake" show do to public opinion? I'm sure they know he does not do "real" magic, but how would they feel if they saw how he used camera tricks to con them?
In the long run, I think it can only be bad for magic on TV. The Blaine shows have been such a widespread success that, when his techniques become widely exposed, all magic on TV will once again be attributed to "camera tricks" and there will be little demand to see it. The public don't believe in real magic, but they do give magicians a certain amount of credit an respect for being able to create the illusion of magic through exceptional skill and knowledge. Public exposure of the Blaine TV editing will have a distrous effect on general feeling towards magicians. |
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jlibby Inner circle 1044 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-08-29 00:35, Bascomb Grecian wrote: I'll be happy to help: Ricardo Montalban IS a great actor. Sorry, couldn't resist. See ya! Joe L. Quote:
On 2003-01-04 10:46, ALEXANDRE wrote: Alexandre's right on the money. I guess if magicians want to criticize DC and DB on a forum like this, that's one thing. But I sure hope you're all keeping your opinions in check in public. Trashing another performer will only hurt all of us in the long run. (Note to self: Take a camera to Southern California...) See ya! Joe L.
My new FREE ebook on the classic Mismade Bill trick is ready for you:
https://funnybirthdayshow.com/mismadebill/ |
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MisterE21 Elite user Salt Lake City, UT 426 Posts |
I have a few things to say, though I'll attempt to refine from writing the great american novel right here in this thread.
I must concur with the decision that the book effect was the result of pre-show prep and a stooge. I must come to this conclusion because, if I decided that David could do such a thing impromptu with any book and number...well...I'd just give up now. Onto Blaine himself...I, honestly, love the guy. Not for his specials, which can be entertaining; not for his effects, which range from boring and stupid to mind-blowing and interesting...but for his overall affect on the magic community. Forgetting, momentarily, what the public thinks of him, it's interesting to see magicians opinions. TO make a horrid analogy, it is like the "abortion" debate of magic. Most people have a strong opinion, either for him or against him, and don't budge. I think he has forced magicians, in various ways, to reconsider their performing personality and examine the effectiveness of their publicity (and what they can do to garner more of it). On to the camera editing rumors...hehe...just kidding. I think a helpful addition to this discussion would be a discussion of what we mean by camera edits...As I see it, Blaine has used at least three very seperate forms of camera magic. I will venture my opinions on the pro/con of these choices at the end... 1. Outright special effects. This is the case with the levitation. I will admit that it was the amazing looking levitation that got me hooked on Blaine in the first place (and, actually, ogt me interested in magic). After finding out the truth behind them, I was angry. Rewatching them and comparing the ones that are edited with the one that isn't (this one being the one done in the street, which I believe is an authentic Balducci), I become angrier because the edits weren't even DONE that well, in my opinion. But, I digress, that's type one. 2. I've heard from various sources, although I have no way of knowing this is true at this point, that many of his amazing mental effects (such as naming two thought of cards, back-to-back, for the two construction looking guys was actually done following certain forces and restrictions being placed on their choices. Thus, we didn't get the whoel picture, which is what I believe people were alluding to in saying that he doesn't show "full effects." 3. Finally, I'm thinking specifically of his even/odd number mentalism pieces that we're probably all familiar with. Odd number, between 10 - 50, both numbers different, etc. MAGIC Magazine ran an article a few months back on these types of effects, and recounted the story of a magician who wandered teh streets for a full afternoon, doing this with anyone who would stop. These were all recorded, assuming "some" hits that could then be edited into a video and would look amazing. The experiment, per the story, failed. However, I must assume that this is what Blaine did. If you had to do this a hundred times to get two or three hits, but then only used those hits why...you'd look perfectly magical. Those are the three ways I see Blaine having used camera magic for deception in his specials. During a dicussion (okay, argument), on another board, someone brought up the question of "is it worthwhile to use 99 people in a room to pull off something completely amazing to 1?" Is Blaine, or any other magician, worse for using a stooge than camera tricks? I don't know, actually. I'm not against the use of stooges and have, in fact, had a lot fun using them sometimes. The camera effects? I don't know. I have no problem, really, with the 2nd and 3rd type. The complete recreation and editing in of an effect however...ugh. I believe the reactions were genuine, and done in response to a Balducci...if that was good enough for them, why not for the home audience? ::shrug:: Overall, I think we can learn a lot regarding showmanship from Blaine... Just my cent and a half (it's too hard to give a full 2 cents at this time of the morning...) E
Your EFFECT is only as good as its AFFECT.
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Kenpopaul New user UK 3 Posts |
Just a quicky.
All I want to say on the matter is that sure David Blaine uses a combination of Tricks and camera/staged tricks, but he's re-kindled the magic flame in me, I've started studying magic again and feel like i've awoken from a boring dream to a world of pleasure again. Also - has anyone seen the programmes on TV (uk) with Derren Brown (mind control) - he's great at mentalism etc. anyone got any thoughts on him and his techniques?? Paul
Live with Passion
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