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Alexander Marsh Inner circle England 1191 Posts |
It's very, VERY early in the morning here in the UK (so forgive my spelling), I can't sleep and I thought I'd ask my friends here at the Magic Café a question that's been on my mind recently.
Can 'we', as Mentalist's in this modern world we live in, call ourselves what we truly are to the lay audience? That being Mentalists/performers of Mentalism. True it has its advantages, such as people just don't know what the word (or 'Label' in this case) Mentalist or Mentalism means, which allows the performer to define it for them, so to speak. It reminds me of something the front man of a band once said, "It allows the music to define the name, not the name define the music." The name of the band is 'Linkin Park', that name doesn't realy 'mean' anything, it offers no clues to what kind of band they are, what style of music etc. But calling what we do Mentalism to the general public does have a few problems as I see it. For example, here in the UK, theres a general, almost slang term "mentalist"/"he's a mentalist" which basically means 'mad', 'he's crazy', 'loco in the coco'. And also in there's the worry of giving your audience members a word to search for in google and come up with all sorts of things we would rather not have them see (i.e. Mentalism 'Tricks' on on-line magic stores.). So my question to you is, Can we as Mentalists call ourselves Mentalists, and what we do Mentalism to the audiences of todays world? I await your thoughts, Alex.
My stuff: AlexanderMarshMentalism.co.uk
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ScottLeavitt Special user 730 Posts |
Quote:
'almost slang term "mentalist"/"he's a mentalist" which basicly means 'mad', 'he's crazy', 'loco in the coco'. . ...well, if the name fits.... :dancing: |
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partyboy Regular user Montréal, Québec 142 Posts |
Well I guess it could depend on the occasion where you want to give your title. If it is a poster of yourself (or website or whatever the publicity you are doing), it would be good to say "mentalist" but to add another little description or "slogan" of what you do so that they have a better idea and still have a mystery around it so that they are curious about seeing themselves what you are doing.
If on the other hand people on the street, friends or on television; if you say you are a mentalist, they will ask you what it is and a demonstration of your abilities will usually follow. But I don't know if I really answered your question or if it was about the possiblities that the word "mentalist" might scare some people that would associate this word with "charlatanism" maybe. Though, I think it is the best title to give what we do as a form of entertainment. It is much more general than "psychic" or "mind reader" and gives them the presupposition that you'll do more then just reading minds or whatever they asociate with this as we must not forget that it is for entertainment, and people usually do not really associate "psychics" (in the real term of it) with some sort of entertainment. Just my thoughts.
"communicate your humanity, 'cause that's what we all are after all : human!"
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oxygen Regular user Paris 186 Posts |
I've often thought about the "google search" problem with the word "mentalist".
In English language, you have many possible words to use like: "psychological entertainer" "mindreader" etc... In France we don't have that as we don't really use an equivalent of "entertainement" in the way you do. The word in french is "divertissement" and has not the same meaning or impact. The other words we have like "voyant" or "medium" have a very bad image to the general audience. so pretty hard to find something else than "mentaliste" for us. |
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lawrencetreagus New user 61 Posts |
If you don't define what you do with a single word it gives the appearance of you being individual.
"Hey, what do you call the stuff you do?" "I've never thought of it like that, I don't realy do anything, it just happens" Thus giving the impression that what ever you did actually happened and that the things you do cannot be explained. Or tell them it doesn't have a name and that they should study people and their behaviour. Then recomend a "Desmond Morris" title. As a general rule I don't use the word mentalism for the "google" reasons stated above and I don't think you need to. Regards |
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PinkGlove New user Bude England 78 Posts |
I've got the problem associated with the word "mentalist" even more, since I nearly exclusively perform for students, the word "mentalist" for them only has one definition... insane. I got sniggered at for two weeks before I realised this. Playing to my audience, I now claim that I am just playing with thier heads, which gets under thier skin far more than any other explanation. I avoid any claims of psychic power or psychological skills, I let them make up thier own minds, and never tell them if they are right or wrong.
An approach that works well with students.
Trust anyone who has gone through it.
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Alexander Marsh Inner circle England 1191 Posts |
Thanks guys for your replys, and sorry I havent replyed sooner.
The reason I ask is because, as some of you may have noticed I posted a topic titled "The dillema conntinues...." which was me asking for peoples advice on how to 'word' a disclaimer and the problems I had with it. It would make life much easer if I could come out on stage and say something like, "I am not psychic. I use a mixture of; psychology, mentalism and suggestion....." Which is 100% true. (note: suggestion for me means more to me than just saying "imagin you have magnets in your parms tugging and pulling, pulling and tugging...", to me it can also means the non-verbal cues people give of that can lead you to deduce there thoughts, i.e. if your wife has had a bad day, not one word need be spoken for you to tell she has had a bad day.) And this has nothing to do with so-called 'Magicians Guilt', ive never been a magician, its to do with being human. I would ofcorse go on to say that I am only there "to entertain and not to make anyone belive in anything paranormal". And that, "you never know, you might learn something about your self." If someone were to take me aside and ask me what 'psychology' was, id explain that its "the study of the human mind." If someone were to ask me what 'suggestion' was, id explain, "well its a subtile command, it implies that some one should do something. And you can suggeest verbaly and non-verbaly", and give them an examble like the one above. And, if they were to ask me what 'menatlism' is, I might say, "well the term comes from a philosophical doctrine that belives that basicly the world and reality only exsit in our minds. For example, if a tree falls in the woods and no ones around to hear it, does it make a sound? A 'mentalist' would answer 'No', because there was no 'mind' to be aware of it. Its also used as a generic term for mind-readers, psychics, mind-magicians, what ever you want to call us." Am I crazy (a mentalist ) in my oppinion and claim, Alex.
My stuff: AlexanderMarshMentalism.co.uk
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Mark Rough Inner circle Ivy, Virginia 2110 Posts |
As far as disclaimers, I don't use one, but in your case, why not simply state, "I use a mixture of psychology and suggestion." and duck the whole use of the word mentalism.
Mark
What would Wavy do?
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Alexander Marsh Inner circle England 1191 Posts |
It's a good point Mark, but may be I'm thinking to much about it or ive been influenced by the likes of Banachek, because its hes books I read first when getting in to mentalism.
But I feel a lie is a lie is a lie. And I don't want to give my self a stomach alsa(sp?). I could say, "psychology, magic and suggestion" but magic gives the wrong impression early on and its not magic any way.
My stuff: AlexanderMarshMentalism.co.uk
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Mark Rough Inner circle Ivy, Virginia 2110 Posts |
No, don't say magic either. Just psychology and suggestion. It is true. 100%. Sure, you're leaving something out, which is technically dishonest, but it is not a lie. If you want, how about adding something like, "percection management" to cover the rest of your bases. It's completely meaningless on one level, but I think it covers what you are thinking about.
About this lieing thing. In doing these effects we are perpetrating a deception. On one level it's all a lie. Don't feel bad about it. For a while I wanted to bill myself as a "professional liar" but thought better of it. No one will pay to see that. Now I don't bill myself as anything in particular. When asked I say that I perform mind reading and psychic phenonena as entertainment. It's as close to a disclaimer as I want to get. Mark
What would Wavy do?
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Hypnotic Winter Special user Ireland 720 Posts |
It's always been my belief that disclaimers and titles are over played far too much.
I keep explanations short short. I'm a psychic entettainer who usees all natural little known method to create what you see. Even that's too long. I may not be liked for saying this but I always feel that the longer the disclaimer the more the magicians guilt. I've seen guys fill pages of disclaimers. If I have to explain the word mentalist, I say mind power effects. H.W
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
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Alexander Marsh Inner circle England 1191 Posts |
Thanks Mark.
I have thought about using a deceptive/ambigues line to make myself feel more comftable performing what I perform. For example, "I use a mixture of psychological and tradional techniques......", "tradional" doesn't really mean anything to an audience but to you an me it means billets, swami's etc. But maybe it would be better to simple state, "I am not psychic, everyting I perform is done by perfectly natural means." and just allow my own sillent script, patter and presentations to 'expalin'. Maybe its just my genneration where real disclaimers are every where, think about the MTV show jack***, at the beggining of every show they have a dissclaimer that basicly says, don't try this at home, we hold no ressponsabilty if you attempt these stunts and die! Alex.
My stuff: AlexanderMarshMentalism.co.uk
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Mark Rough Inner circle Ivy, Virginia 2110 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-11-07 09:44, PsychoMagi wrote: Alex, I like the idea about natural means better than traditonal. Great idea. I do understand and appreciate why people use disclaimers. I just don't' feel like I want to use one. If people are coming to my show, they know it's entertainment. I don't care if they think it's real or not. I'm not going to use what I do to hurt them or rip them off in any way. So I don't feel a disclaimer is necessary. However, I can see some circumstances where I'd want to cover my butt pretty well. If I were doing an effect, a find the poison effect, for example, in which someone could get hurt if they tried it at home, I'd be screaming a disclaimor from the tallest tower. Thanks for the great conversation. It's nice to talk with people without a bunch of slagging going on. Mark
What would Wavy do?
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Alexander Marsh Inner circle England 1191 Posts |
"Thanks for the great conversation. It's nice to talk with people without a bunch of slagging going on."
To true Mark. Hmmmm... Ive got all these ideas running round my head about claims and diclaims, all as good and as bad as each other. Another idea I had was saying something like, "Ive studyed the human mind (true) and how people uncociosly communicate there thoughts (true). Ive learnt the techniques used by psychics and hypnotists (true, true, bit worryed about saying 'hypnotists' though)". Thers allways something I feel comftable with, that I feel suites me down to the ground but also I negaling uncomftableness with it. Alex.
My stuff: AlexanderMarshMentalism.co.uk
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Mark Rough Inner circle Ivy, Virginia 2110 Posts |
Alex,
Hmmmm. . is right. How about this. "Everything I'm doing here tonight is based on two things. . .my intuition and your imagination." Seems to me it's about 99% true. It's suits me because some of the effects I do are based on odds (the my intuition part) the rest is about either physically or psychologically manipulating their perceptions (their imagination). Anyway, I off to hit the grocery store. I'll check back in later. Mark
What would Wavy do?
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Alexander Marsh Inner circle England 1191 Posts |
Thanks Mark for giving me your time and your thoughts.
To be clear, I 'bill' my self as a 'Mind-Magician', to me its the most sensable opption due to my style and choice of performance matireal. Although, I like to call my 'shows' (be they close-up or on stage. Performances might be a better term), Psycho-Magic. (Yes I know it comes from Corinda.) And that, calling my-self a 'Mind-Magician' (Psychological Magician is acceptable too, in my oppinion), says a lot allready about what I do. Agh well, ill go away and think, Alex.
My stuff: AlexanderMarshMentalism.co.uk
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Angela Regular user Ohio 190 Posts |
Everyone...
Thank you all for putting so much thought into this! How to define "mentalist" for my specs is something that I've struggled with for a long, long time. For the most part, I haven't used any disclaimers when I've shown a few things here and there at school. This is a perfect example of what a tangled web we weave. I've had people theorizing that I'm a real witch... most definitely not the case. This isn't really something that I worry about in an actual show, because I perform mentalism alongside other things under the title of "magician". That way, people already accept that what I do is for entertainment only. Things just got a little out of hand when I started bending metal for people at school who had no idea I did magic. I used that method, too, Lawrence-- "I can't explain what I do myself, it just happens." It was always my easy way out. From now on, though, I'm going to make sure that I can explain my identity in case the need for a disclaimer does arise. Angela |
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Ian Broadmore Special user 555 Posts |
I call myself a psychological entertainer, esp, suggestion, hypnosis I leave the audience to decide.
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Alexander Marsh Inner circle England 1191 Posts |
Thanks for posting Angela and Ian.
Angla, some intresting thoughts. And may I commend you Ian on being so brave as to saying you call your-self a psychological entertainer, useally on this bored you get a lot of deslike from others about choosing a psychological approuch. Ive been away thinking and I think its best not to list a hole bunch of 'things' I use to do what I do. A simple few words, and off I go allowing my performance to speak for its self. I think in close-up settings you may need to strees it a little more than you would on stage, but this neednt be more than one effect that give the audience a genral idea. Thank you all, youve helped me alot. Alex.
My stuff: AlexanderMarshMentalism.co.uk
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Hypnotic Winter Special user Ireland 720 Posts |
Angela,
My best friend is a real Witch, no joking, she's of the wiccan religion, the fact that I work in another direction makes no difference. She treats all I do as totally normal and yet she's never had an explanation. She got freaked once when I did a sealed evvelope prediction ehich contained the exact date she would return the envelop to me and that her car would have problems the previous day, I couldn't get a word out of her for five minutes, I got really worriedm she kept holding her arms arond herslef and shivering, I think it was to think that some one could have this kind of control tha freaked her. H.W
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
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