|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 | ||||||||||
Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
Quote:
Audiences want something more akin to a real magical (yes, supernatural) experience. They want something visceral and hard-hitting -- not necessarily "psychic" themed, but something that makes them wonder if the laws of physics are being twisted in front of their eyes, or if reality has been unexplainably altered. ("How did he do that? Oh my God, he must be in league with SATAN!") That's the reactions I enjoy... much more so than the "I wonder how he did that? He must have some kind of gizmo up his sleeve." How true! I'm trying to see how to properly word my support of what you've shared here... Magicians are sensitive when it comes to the idea of "BEING REAL" and exploiting human nature... more specifically, the human "need" to believe and experience things that sustain belief... EVEN WHEN WE KNOW IT'S NOT TRUE. Read any "Sacred Scriptures" we find some fascinating things. Heck, any magician worth his/her grain as a creative mind can go crazy replicating some of the stuff found in such resources (not just the bible... believe it or not, it's NOT the only "Sacred Text" in the world.. nor the oldest. Besides, some of the older Eastern Mysteries have some very cool images to pull from) Like it or not Religion/Human Spirituality is seriously connected to our craft... especially for those of us specializing in Mental/Psychic & Paranormal type performances. I don't care what style of program you do, the public places a certain mystique around us that the average "magician" will never know. This "gift" if you would, obliges us to work closer to our shamanistic connection than the more common magic buff can do. The exception being with Bizarre performers and the Storyteller. Heck, even my Santa (Father Christmas) invokes a powerful fascination from those encountering him... it's not "evil" or dark, quite the opposite! But he is enchanting and not seen as some dope with stupid puzzle boxes or the same 50 year old tricks everyone saw at birthday party shows when they were kids. Craig's bashing birthday performers! No, I'm bashing hookiness in performance... not keeping up with the times... clinging to the "old ways" like grim death vs. seeing and working with the change... the manifestation of the Hermetic Laws in which all things cycle, repeat, and know their ebb and flow. On the other hand, the more that ignore this physical/metaphysical reality, the better things will be for those of us aware. The times as well as the trends... they are a chang'n!
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
|
|||||||||
Gardinski New user UK 66 Posts |
One of the chaps over on the bizarre side of the Café has posted up a link to an online book, "Gypsy Sorcery and Fortune Telling"
by Charles Godfrey Leland [1891] which interest people reading this thread, as it deals with the shamanic roots of fortune-telling. Here's the link. http://www.sacred-texts.com/pag/gsft/gsft03.htm There's a huge range of interesting and peculiar material dotted around the 'sacred texts' site, much of which I'm sure could be put to good use in weaving plots for both mentalism and bizarre routines. Enjoy, Tony G. Strictly speaking, there should have been a "might" between the words "which" and "interest" in my last post. Otherwise it makes virtually no sense. I'm sure you will have figured it out for yourself, but it just made me cringe when I re-read it, so there you go. Sorry, and stuff. Tony G. |
|||||||||
Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
I think I'm pretty representative of the general population, too. They want real magic, not the same tired old prestidigitation. Wow that's going to go over real big at my next birthday party. "And see, the rabbits magically trade places because I have invoked the power of the old ones" "Well Timmy you can't get your rings apart? That's because you haven't sold your soul to the Dark Master as I did seven years ago today" I have a hard enough time convincing people that I'm not trying to recruit their children into Satanism by doing a "Harry Potter" themed show. Im not knocking those performers who walk on the dark side. If that's your persona and performing style more power to you, at least you haver a persona and performing style which is more than I can say for 99% of the guys out there. Magic is Theatre. There are Dramatic Plays and Comedic ones. Plays that make you think about the human condition and those that make you forget about them as well. Serious epics and inconsiquental bits of fluff. The tired old prestidigitation of whic you speak others call the classics. Classics are classics for a reason, they play upon basic human needs and desires. What our audiences are tired of are old worn out presentations, canned patter and abundant stock lines. Above all Audiences want to be entertained. Whether this is by some dark Svengali type invoking ancient magiks to cause those sponge balls to appear in their closed hand, or some funny guy just doing amusing magic tricks is up to the personallity and persona of the magician.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
|
|||||||||
Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
Payne... if you feel that it's best to work on the "lighter side" of things, why are you in the mentalists section? I do not mean to be an antagonist in what I'm saying, but you're defense for the clown and insistence to cling to the right to do "Tricks" vs. "Miracles" leads me to believe you do "Mental Magic" vs. "Mentalism" and at that, I'd bet you just recently started doing such because of the current trends (thank you David Blaine) wihtin the trade. Admittedly, this is an assumption on my part and if I'm wrong, then forgive me. I'm going by what you are saying in your posts and how you are being so tenacious on the idea the magic (especially Bizarre/Psychic styled) hosts significant ties to ancient religion and related psychology of ritual. Few of us that specialize in this side of magic do "Kiddie Parties" for starters. The few I have done have been for very cool and very educated children who happen to have Pagan parents who are just as cool. Unfortunately the average Baptist in our world today thinks it a sin to even call tricks "Magic" and that Papa Smurf is the Devil Incarnate and anyone that does billard balls needs to be burnt at the stake... so why would I need to do an incantation at Jr's birthday celebration? (I can tick off the average born again pain in the rear just by saying hi...) I stress, I am not presenting this to challenge or demean you. I'm honestly confused as to where you're coming from and why the heck you're in this part of the forum offering such slights towards historic realities. Later!
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
|
|||||||||
E-Leoni Veteran user USA 358 Posts |
Lets not forget the evil Pokeman.
E-LEoni. |
|||||||||
Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-09-12 17:59, E-Leoni wrote: I thoght that was you BTW... do you know what's green and hops from bed to bed?
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
|
|||||||||
Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
I stress, I am not presenting this to challenge or demean you. I'm honestly confused as to where you're coming from and why the heck you're in this part of the forum offering such slights towards historic realities. I cruise many of the topics here at the Café, even the Gospel section from time to time even though I am a card carrying secular humanist, my Indian name is "Knows where the rocks are". I was directed here by a friend who, knowing my take on the origins of conjuring, thought I'd find this thread of interest. I still stand by my beliefs that we are descendent from the lowly jongleurs and not high priests, but then I've always found con ment to be more interesting than sages. Believe me I have the utmost respect for your style of performing, those that can present magic so it is percieved as real, such as David Blaine does, I find intriguing. It's just not my style. I rarely perform mental magic as I believe that if you do it should be presented as "real", an ability I know I do not possess so I stay away from it as a rule. I sometimes do a mental trick but it is always presented as a trick or stunt, pretty much as I present all my effects. I never considered myself a Bizarre performer, and still don't even though I have several bizarre performer friends who insist I am as I frequently do story telling type effects and geek magic from time to time as well.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
|
|||||||||
mysterium New user Baltimore, MD 100 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-09-12 17:22, Payne wrote: Most mentalists don't do birthday parties. Quote:
"And see, the rabbits magically trade places because I have invoked the power of the old ones" I would have loved that as a kid! Quote:
I have a hard enough time convincing people that I'm not trying to recruit their children into Satanism by doing a "Harry Potter" themed show. That's a sad commentary. Quote:
Im not knocking those performers who walk on the dark side. If that's your persona and performing style more power to you, at least you haver a persona and performing style which is more than I can say for 99% of the guys out there. I think you're misunderstanding my point. A magician doesn't have to be "dark" to perform miracles (as opposed to performing tricks). I think appearing to be dark can have serious drawbacks. My point is that many "classics" just don't cut it. I watch someone doing the linking rings and I just want to jump out a window. Sure, there's still an audience of classics. But if you want to provide a *thrill* to a contemporary audience, you have to give them something close to miraculous. That's the reason I enjoy mentalism -- it's adult magic, and it still gives people a thrill and allows them to imagine "what if..." You can't get that kind of reaction with cups and balls, no matter how skillfully you present it. I'm not denigrating the classics, just echoing what I've heard from audiences and my contemporaries.
Mysterium
http://www.themysterium.org |
|||||||||
Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
You can't get that kind of reaction with cups and balls, no matter how skillfully you present it. I'm not denigrating the classics, just echoing what I've heard from audiences and my contemporaries. You obviously have not seen Gazzo do cups and balls. I've seen incredibly strong reactions to sponge balls. I think a clever trick can be just as mystifiying and evoke as strong a reaction as any miracle.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
|
|||||||||
saglaser Loyal user Champaign, IL 248 Posts |
Quote:
I still stand by my beliefs that we are descendent from the lowly jongleurs and not high priests, but then I've always found con ment to be more interesting than sages. The question of who is more interesting is purely one of personal preferences. But the evolution of our trade (or even devolution) is a matter of history. The street performers were not showbiz Prometheus's who stole the the fire of palming from the gods. They are indeed descended from the Shamanic/Priestly tradition, even if their use and presentation of the art bears little resemblence to its origins. Not only are the jugglers magicians so decended but so are Shakesperean actors and the guys who got cheap laughs with pratt falls on the old vaudeville stages. So, for that matter, is the guy at the hospital who just performed a heart transplant. The road of evolution has many forks Thousands of years of social change led to thousands of adaptions, small and large, until most of todays performers are as unlike those who sat by tribal campfiles as sparrows are unlike dinosaurs, but the links are there. Whether you prefer things as they've been or wish your performance to harken back to earlier ancestors is entirely up to you -- and, perhaps, your audience. But it benefits nobody to deny our history. |
|||||||||
iluznst New user Los Angeles 66 Posts |
Out of all the threads posted in this forum since I started paying attention, none I have enjoyed the more than this one and the way in which it is being carried about. Considering what goes on in other "boards" I am overwhelmingly impressed.
DA |
|||||||||
Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
Quote:
I think you're misunderstanding my point. A magician doesn't have to be "dark" to perform miracles (as opposed to performing tricks). I think appearing to be dark can have serious drawbacks. You don't know how right you are on that observation Mike. I've clung to the role of the dark & mysterious "Wizard" for years (even when I did Illusions "he" was there...)Wasn't certain how to break the mold until recently... The transformation is painful my trademark head of thick hair GONE! as is the beard... black suits are being traded in for ivory and earth tones... even "Zoot" types vs. Goth. Is this what a mid-life crises feels like BTW Payne... don't feel bad for not being able to present Mentalism "right"... I have the hardest time keeping a straight face when I do certain bits. For that reason I've always been careful to stage things into a more tongue-n-cheek mode of presentation. Though many accuse me of being the King of the Charlatans, I can assure everyone I've not the poker face required for meeting their claims. On the other hand, I still support some of the fun used in those ancient temples BY THE HIGH PRIESTS like Stone Idol Vent Dummies (a.k.a. GODS) and weeping stones.
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
|
|||||||||
E-Leoni Veteran user USA 358 Posts |
No I do not know what's green and hops from bed to bed !
Answer please. E-Leoni. |
|||||||||
Darmoe Special user Ohio 741 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-09-13 10:15, E-Leoni wrote: A PROSTITOAD!
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
|
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » "The roots of conjuring are in Shamanism" (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |