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stevenamills Veteran user 397 Posts |
I just saw Tannen's recent newsletter with the new Tenyo items.
One item was sponge balls. It appears to contain 3 small balls - 1 large ball and a purse frame. All can be had for $44.00! I realize the American Dollar isn't worth spit anymore and maybe there is more here than I realize, but this seemed way out of line. Has anyone actually seen the new Tenyo stuff? Am I missing something? Tenyo seemed REAL proud of everything. Later..... Steve |
Alex Tan Loyal user Singapore 290 Posts |
I got them as a gift and quite frankly, I did not notice anything really fantastic or special about them, except for the price. For the price, I could have gotten quite a bit of super soft sponge balls.
Alex
Alex Tan
www.alexthemagician.show |
afknight Elite user 499 Posts |
I had the same reaction when I saw this in the magic shop last Saturday. $40 is a lot unless there was some truly amazing breakthrough or improvement in the balls, purse frame, routine supplied, etc. Even then, I still couldn't justify it!
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Turk Inner circle Portland, OR 3546 Posts |
A similar thought was mentioned in another set of posts on Petrik's "Devil's Pitchfork" for $25.00!!! (Essentially a plastic picnic fork, "the "gimmick" plus the instructions. The total physical items cost less than $0.05 and the instructions cost less than $0.10. It is hard to see how the "secret" is worth $24.85. At best this item should have been included as one item of many in a set of lecture notes (for approx $8.00-$10.00 for the notes).
Thank goodness for the Internet and the Café so that these types of "deals" can be exposed. Mike P.S. Perhaps a Café thread (such as "Outrageously Priced Items") where such items can be more effectively listed and openly discussed might be in order. This might result in an immediate reality check by magic inventors and magic sellers. Absent such a topic thread, we can only generally post our observations in this topic thread.
Magic is a vanishing Art.
This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto. Eschew obfuscation. |
Daegs Inner circle USA 4291 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-01-18 19:14, Turk wrote: Let's see, that means Petrik is getting perhaps $10 dollars per unit minus the cost of the supplies + printing cost + labor cost + photo's, ect. Once you spend a lot of your time developing an effect and put forth the effort towards putting that on the market, then come back and say that less then $10 dollars per unit is too much. How many units of these forks do you think he sells? It is not like he is getting rich by overpricing fork effects.... Do you not know anything about wholesalers and retailers? or the cost to get something marketed, manufactured, advertised and getting it to actually sell? The cost of invention? How can you take someone's innovation and harp that them getting less(I'm sure its WAY less) than $10's per sale is too much? What you should be outraged about is those retailers that get the "25 amazing magic tricks with XXX" for $2-$3 bucks and charge $30.... that is what is ruining magic, not original effects that are put out by the creator for a reasonable price. |
Rcitgo Special user Emporia,Va. 738 Posts |
I bought the Devil's Pitchfork from Tannen's quite a few years ago.You have to be seated behind a table to do it.I can't remember what I paid for it but I remember I was satisfied when I recieved it.
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MSD921 Special user 616 Posts |
Daegs - On topic here...Tenyo is selling 3 sponge balls, a jumbo ball and a purse frame for $40.00. That is outrageous unless they have added something to this VERY established effect. The routine they show for this (which I watched in Japanese)is sponge ball 101 stuff. Unless this is a real gold plated frame, this appears to be a highly inflated price.
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Turk Inner circle Portland, OR 3546 Posts |
Daegs,
You and I are discussing apples and oranges. I am discussing whether or not the effect is worth $25.00 to a magician buyer; you are discussing whether or not it is worth a magic inventor's time to put out an effect such as this unless he can be compensated with a ROI (return on investment) sufficient to motivate him to make these items. I am well aware of the concepts of cost of production and ROI and the fact that a person must be sufficiently compensated in order to become sufficiently motivated to produce and sell anything. I have an undergraduate degree in business with a emphasis in Marketing, lots of experience selling in the retail market and I have been buying magic (as a customer) for the last 25 years. My comments were made with an such understandings and an understanding of what you get when you buy Devil's Pitchfork versus what you get when you buy other magic items. The cost of production including assembling such a simple effect is such that a person can easily make at least 1 unit every 5 minutes. Let's see...60/5 = 12 units per hour. At your suggested $10.00 each, that amounts to $120.00/hr. And, to really maximize ROI, why doesn't Petrick just sell the instruction sheet for $10.00 and let the buyer "roll his own"? Man, at $10.00 just for the instruction sheet, Petrik could produce these as fast as a photocopy machine could spit out the simple intruction sheet. No sense being slowed down to actually assemble one of these puppies (at 5 minutes per manufactured unit) when you can print 100+ copies of the instructions in the same 5 minute time period. When you can purchase a good book or DVD with many effects in it for approximately the selling price of this one simple effect and when you can find many good lecture notes for approximately $8.00-10.00,... well I begin to wonder how the single effect can be justified for such a high price. (I own all of Petrik's original set of lecture notes--lecture notes I might add where many similar effects such as this were assembled into lecture notes and sold for $5.00-$7.50/booklet.) There are plenty of effects that are well worth $10.00-$25.00--both because of the value in the prop and the value in the secret. I remember fondly buying such items as Scotch and Soda, hot rods, thumb tips, Invisible Decks, A 50-100 foot piece of magician's rope, etc. IMHO, after comparing the Devil's Pitchfork to these others, I believe that the Devil's Pitchfork is waay overpriced on all counts (cost of production, cost of distribution, fair profit and value added for consumer). That's why I suggested that this "secret" should have been part of a set of lecture notes. Lecture notes are an ideal way to release "secrets" of this nature and of this value. Finally, you remark that: "What you should be outraged about is those retailers that get the "25 amazing magic tricks with XXX" for $2-$3 bucks and charge $30.... that is what is ruining magic, not original effects that are put out by the creator for a reasonable price." I am outraged by such practices and, without meaning to, you have stated my objections to the Devil's Pitchfork. At best, you are buying a $2.00-$3.00 trick that is being sold for far more than it is worth. If you really believe that $25.00 is a fair and reasonable price for this simple prop, well, I'd be willing to sell you my original unused first edition for $12.50. Mike
Magic is a vanishing Art.
This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto. Eschew obfuscation. |
calexa Inner circle Germany 1635 Posts |
THe problem is always: what is the secret of a trick worth, and what do we think should an inventor get for inventing his trick.
Buyers and sellers will never come in line on this issue. So, if you think the price is too high, don´t by the trick! Magixx
Optimists have more fun.....
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Turk Inner circle Portland, OR 3546 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-01-19 09:58, calexa wrote: Magixx, Thanks for your input. Please allow me to respond. 1. "Buyers and sellers will never come in line on this issue." Not true. Many times I have willingly spent $50.00-$100.00 for exclusive and truly mind-blowing original effects and "secrets". The actual cost is not the issue here. Rather, it is the value you get for what you paid. 2. "So, if you think the price is too high, don´t buy the trick!" The problem with this concept is that, when buying most magic, the buyer can not know if the price is too high until AFTER he has purchased the item and examined it and otherwise learned the "secret". Oh, would that a buyer of magic could make an informed buying decision and have such knowledge prior to making his purchasing decision. If that was the case, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Mike
Magic is a vanishing Art.
This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto. Eschew obfuscation. |
calexa Inner circle Germany 1635 Posts |
Hi Mike,
interesting discussion. Let me add something: You said: "The actual cost is not the issue here. Rather, it is the value you get for what you paid." That is exactly my point. Everybody has to make his own decision whether to buy an effect. So before you buy, everybody must ask themself: Can I justify for myself this purchase? Do I get a good value? When you spend willingly 100$, do you pay this price because you think this IS the right price, or do you spend the money because you think this COULD be the right price for that kind of value? Second: What you said under Nr.2 is in my eyes not absolutely true. Very often I buy effects because I saw them somewhere and thought: Wow, that looks good. On what basis now do I have to judge my purchase: on the effect that I saw or on the trick that I know after I learned the secret? When I said that "Buyers and sellers will never come in line on this issue", I should correct this a little bit: Buyers and sellers will almost never come in line on this issue. The reason is in my eyes simple: they judge the value of an effect from different points of view. The inventor for example sees the time he has spent to develop the effect, the buyer sees only the little gadget that makes the trick work. And again: if I see a trick and I think, that´s too much for what I have seen, I don´t buy this trick. An example (of course only in my eyes): Escalator by Gaeten Bloom. Magixx
Optimists have more fun.....
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MSD921 Special user 616 Posts |
Back on point for this post - These same (basically) sponge balls and purse frame can be purchased, at your local magic shop, for under $10.00. These folks have not added any "value" (routine, secrets, newness), that I can see, to the existing sponge ball effect as we all know it. Most of today's rip-off's at least try and pretend to change something!
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tboehnlein Inner circle ohio 1787 Posts |
If Tenyo wishes to retail a set of spongeballs & a purseframe for 40 bucks that is fine with me, keeps it out of the casual observers hands & if they do purchase it then maybe they might appreciate the costs & efforts of a magician a little more.
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
I have not handled the Tenyo sponge balls, however, I have a question. Their ad copy says they are SOFTER than the Goshmans. Is that true? If so, that can be a great advantage.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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FCpreacher Elite user PA 439 Posts |
Yes, Pete. These are MUCH softer than Goshman Super Softs (believe it or not). I have had the pleasure of handling these and they are amazing. I have to slap my hand often to keep myself from buying sets of these on the net. On my tight budget I don't think I am able to pay $40 for these, but if I were a rich man ...
FC |
nick vassil Regular user 101 Posts |
I haven`t handled Goshman balls so can`t compare, but lucky me l live in Japan they sell here about 10-12 US dollars
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
I thought that Tenyo usually prices within guidelines. The cose increase must be due to the high shipping fees that we see now for international delivery and of course the import customs fees. Remember, the government regulates merchandise coming into the USA and charges fees that must be passed on to the consumer.
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skc417 Loyal user australia 226 Posts |
Wmhegbli is right on with all the extra fees, for all of you lucky ones in the US you can get most tricks really cheap, and free shipping etc. If you were to buy magic tricks overseas that are imported from the U.S the price is usually doubled.
So why all the complaining, you have all the alternatives like the goshman spongeballs. The tenyo effects aren't even really aimed at magicians. |
Magicianmagic New user Santa Maria, CA 14 Posts |
Tenyo's spongeballs are much softer and nicer than Goshmans-period. I love them. Trust me on this one Café. However I too disagree with the price.
--If only someone can persuade tenyo to make a super-size growing sponge ball!!!! -p.s. does anyone know where I can get the super growing sponge ball. The one that goes from 2" to 10 or 11" ??? Help! |
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