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Patchouli New user France 65 Posts |
I am a French puppeter.
I present GUIGNOL. Guignol is a marionette very well known in France (remember the little country around Bordeaux). This character has been created in the very early 1800's by Laurent Mourguet in the city of LYON. If you are interested by the subject, I will answer any question right here ! just give me a please and excuse my aproximative English. Cordialement, Patrick. |
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enriqueenriquez Inner circle New York 1287 Posts |
Hello Patrick,
Are you talking about ONE marionette, or about the famous Guignol Theatre? I’m curious. |
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Todd Robbins V.I.P. New York 2922 Posts |
Patchouli posted a bit about the puppet in the Carnival of Fun forum in response to a discussion about Punch & Judy. I suggested that he might want to post something here, too. Guignol is different from Grand Guignol theater, though I think it might be dark enough to have appeal for the folks in this forum.
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Patchouli New user France 65 Posts |
As I explained to Todd on another table on the Forum café :
Quote:
On 2005-01-23 23:06, Patchouli wrote: "THEATRE DE GRAND GUIGNOL" Oscar Méténier bought an old chapel in Paris where was distinguish small cabaret called the "Théâtre salon". He presented inside small acts alternatively comic and fear. To make fear they used a lot of illusions and FX. To be complete I must admit that the shows used to be realistic and what we can tell (today) a bit sexy. But in these years it could be considered as nearly pornographic. (André de Latour, "comte de Lorde", is the author of most of the drama of he theater of "GRAND GUIGNOL") And now... "THEATRE DE GUIGNOL" Guignol is a Puppet which was created by a friend of a (tooth taker) "arracheur de dents". Guignol was at first presented on public markets for people come to approach the tooth taker. But he was so successful that he became a star in LYON and was next presented in an important café (like here but not virtual). Guignol spoke to workers at first. Guignol was speaking on what were going wrong. So, all the workers could identify themselves to him. It was the first political marionette. (I guess you have TV program called spitting images) Afterward he became the emblematic figure for kids marionettes. Because of JB Onofrio. Cordialement, Patrick. |
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enriqueenriquez Inner circle New York 1287 Posts |
Thanks Patrick and Todd,
The story of the puppet’s origins seems extremely interesting. Could you describe the marionette or provide a link to an image? Tanks again!!! |
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Patchouli New user France 65 Posts |
Here are some sites You can read the first one in english.
http://amisdeguignol.free.fr/ http://www.theatre-guignol.com/ and of course on my personal site : http://sortieenfantabordeaux.chez.tiscali.fr/ But my puppets are a bit untypical for traditional Guignol because, when we began to do puppet shows, we were a bit hurry, and had difficulties to find a real true photograph (Its easier today with internet). But the stories I present ar very close with the original drama of Mourguet. |
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enriqueenriquez Inner circle New York 1287 Posts |
Nice web page Patrick!
Thanks for the information. |
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Patchouli New user France 65 Posts |
Does anyone knows when the crocodile appeared in the plays of Punch and Judy ?
Historically Punch appeared in London a few years after Polichinelle in Paris. But at the beginning of the XIX th century Guignol appeared in France and Polichinelle disappeared completely.... As it seems.... But... In some plays of the “Parisian Guignol” (who is in fact a copy of Polichinelle or Punch if you prefer) the crocodile reappears. Where does it come from ? I think that the crocodile is a modern creation, because in the XVII th century this animal should be considered as mythological. So where did it appeared ? In England, in Paris or elsewhere ? Do you get info on the subject or do you know a place to get the answer of this existential question ? If the apparition of the crocodile is in Paris, it means that a creation was still alive after the appearance of Guignol. If not… Cordialement, Patrick. |
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enriqueenriquez Inner circle New York 1287 Posts |
Patrick, if you haven’t read this, you may find it interesting:
http://www.sagecraft.com/puppetry/traditions/crocodile.html |
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Patchouli New user France 65 Posts |
Hi Enrique,
This is very interesting. It seems to prove that there has a coming back current to France. It would mean that there is a trace to prove the French Parisian’s Puppeteers resistance to survive in front of the invasion of Guignol. Its very exciting. To your interest... When GUIGNOL became a star, the Parisian puppeteer couldn’t fight against this movement. So they continued to use the character of Polichinel (his plays and his spirit) but with another puppet they called GUIGNOL. The use of the crocodile shows that, at any moment, the spirit of Polichinelle was research by these puppeteers. And because of the crocodile, the evolution of the Parisian GUIGNOL is a branch of PUNCH. I heard this no elsewhere. I must search on this to be sure, but it seems to be an unknown bit of the puppet’s history. Cordialement, Patrick. I read here http://www.voy.com/47632/90.html That “ The crocodile joined the show in the 1860s ” but twenty years after it is still not mentioned in France in the plays. It would be interesting to perform again, Polichinelle in France. But I wonder the reaction of the parents because of the violence in the plays, and because of the permanent reference to death. • Did you see a play of Punch & Judy and show ? • What are the adults reactions for themselves and for their own kids ! • Does the little children (from 2 to 5 years old) goes to Punch & Judy shows ? • I suppose the violence can make the youngest cry so… At what age the children don’t cry when seeing Punch ? (if they does) Thank you for all answers from any where. Cordialement, Patrick. |
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enriqueenriquez Inner circle New York 1287 Posts |
Patrick,
I have been thinking for a while about doing an animated version of Punch and Judy. I love the original story, but I’m sure it’s too rude for today’s parents (notice that I say parents, not kids). Everything seems to be “too much”, for today’s parents. Still, Kids are delighted watching Pokemon, Yu-Gi oh! and all that stuff that’s more violent at more levels than a guy beating people with a stick. On a related note, have you seen the book “The Tragical Comedy or Comical Tragedy of Mr. Punch”, by neil Gaiman and Dave McKean? Is a wonderful graphic novel about an encounter between a kid and a puppeteer. The artwork is superb. The images of the crocodile are fantastic, BTW. |
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Patchouli New user France 65 Posts |
I never saw that book by neil Gaiman and Dave McKean
Up to now, I only focalized my attention on Guignol : His stories, his history, the way to perform and the special relationship in this form of theatre. I hope one day, I can edit the book I'm writing on the subject ! So, I wasn’t especially interested in Punch and Judy plays. In the café, I just posted some informations I got, just to give help if it could. And magically the doors opened upon the wonderful world of P&J. I had a very important answer from Todd about the swazzle. This is to explain that I don’t know really the story (stories) of P&J yet. I have more documents on Polichinelle in France. As Punch and Judith are the survivors of Polichinelle, I want to find the main documents to better understand them and their comedy. I think it could help me to have a clear idea of what was Polichinelle in France before is concurrence with Guignol. :fear: I agree with you to consider that Polichinelle, Punch & Judith are too violent for the parents and must be only seen by children whose playing ground is naturally covered of apocalyptic monsters. Cordialement, Patrick. |
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enriqueenriquez Inner circle New York 1287 Posts |
The best thing about Neiman and McKean’s book is how they recreate a very contemporary aesthetic approach using the traditional, antique, puppets.
Patrick, now I’m totally curious about Guignol. You said it started as a dentist attraction. I find that great. Any additional historical information that you post will be appreciated. There is ONE story with Guignol as main character that is performed over and over (like in P&J case)? Or there are many? |
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Patchouli New user France 65 Posts |
Hi Enrique,
The first plays of Laurent Mourguet (The creator of Guignol) were « La racine merveilleuse » (the wonderful stick) in which Guignol learns how to fight against Madelon his wife. He learns how to be the master in his house with the help of a stick. One of the most popular play of Mourguet was “ Le déménagement” (the move away) in which Guignol moves quickly before the lawyer comes to take all his furniture. As you can see all the plays are independent creations, and different from each other. We know these original plays by a funny way ! JB Onofrio was a very important person in Lyon and really liked Guignol. So he decided to note the plays on sheets of paper. And every evening he went to the show (in sordid cafés), to write down the plays. To do so, he had to dress himself like a worker with old clothes for not to be recognized. I told you that Guignol was a bit rude for he spoke to workers. So JB Onofrio decided to extract all the vulgarities from his transcriptions. At the end he published a book (20 plays) that could be placed in any hands and is the reference to approach the work of Laurent Mourguet. (he never wrote his plays) As it was censored, and written by one of them; the upper class of Lyon bought the book and Guignol became a “divertissement de salon” for the whole family. What about P&J do I understand well when you say there is only one play ? Cordialement, Patrick. I don't know where to post that. Just look at it ! http://mbp1150.free.fr/mbp/niveau-2/arch......tion.wmv Great !!!!! Cordialement, Patrick. On my front web page, right now, I just put a picture of Polichinelle. This portrait is part of a small bronze I have (I don't sell it). This is a very exact representation of the French Polichinelle puppet. http://www.le-theatre-magique.fr Cordialement, Patrick. |
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Patchouli New user France 65 Posts |
HELP ! HELP ! HELP ! HELP !
I'm trying to write a book upon Guignol, and for my documentation I can't find any information upon the "grelots" or little bells that Punch, Polichinelle or the "royal bouffons" were wearing on their clothes and on their hat and bonnet. I tryed to search on google whith these terms but my english is not good enought to make a real good search. Does any one can help me ? Thaousand of thanks. Cordialement, Patrick. |
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kaytracy Inner circle Central California 1793 Posts |
Patrick, I fear I do not know what the original bells should look like, but a quick search on small brass bells turned up the following website
http://www.ajantaenterprises.com/Handicr......lls.html If you look, there might be something close to what you need. best of luck in your search Kay
Kay and Tory
www.Bizarremagick.com |
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Patchouli New user France 65 Posts |
Thank you for answer kaytracy !
But it seems that my english is much worse than what I thought. My problem is not to find grelots but it is to find the signification of them. There must be a reason for Punch (Polichinelle, Polichinel, Pulcinela...) and the king's clowns and bouffons to wear this bells. But I cannot find this reason on french speaking websites. Does anyone knows ? I thought may be Punch performers and professors ... ? Thank you for any key ! any ways to search ! Cordialement, Patrick. |
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kaytracy Inner circle Central California 1793 Posts |
Other than speculating on what I have heard; that some Punch and Judy is done with no speaking- and the bells were the announcement- to let you know what was about to happen...sort of like bells for Father Christmas, you know he is at your door!
I fear this is not my area of study, so I can only speculate. Kay
Kay and Tory
www.Bizarremagick.com |
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Patchouli New user France 65 Posts |
Many thanks kaytracy
I had another explanation which must be studied. The costume of Punch (and his pupet ancestors) could come from the fool of the kings in europ. And could be that the grelots were on their costume to prevent their presence for people to watch after their comportement and speaking. I remind you that the fool was the only person who could say or repeat any thing to the king and could not be punished. It seems to be an interesting reason... But to be verified ! Cordialement, Patrick. |
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Patchouli New user France 65 Posts |
I forgotten... If anyone has informations to confirm or ****** (the contrary), even if it is just an idea... Or if you can put me in relation with a Punch professor of your friends... tell me! I am really trying to find this "secret of Polichinelle" (french joke).
My email : patrick-pattern@cario.fr Thank you for every help to all of you ! Cordialement, Patrick. |
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