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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Who invented ThreeFly (3Fly)? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Paul Sherman
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Magic...

best.hobby.ever.
"The finished card expert considers nothing too trivial that in any way contributes to his success..." Erdnase



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Dan McLean Jr aka, Magic Roadie
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I, for one, greatly value everyone's opinions, and I find it compelling when people appear to disagree so disctinctly. Ceratinly, many helpful conversations include disagreement.

I'm against name-calling and personal attacks, though, and I've seen both in this thread. Please note that Jonathan has managed to refrain from using these tactics in this thread, and HE's the one who's involved! (Thank you for your gentelmanly conduct, Jonathan, even when involved in such a coversation.)

All of us here crave conversation, and I suspect most of us are okay with disagreement, but I doubt many of us wish to read name-calling and personal attacks. I, for one, choose not to tolerate it, and I will appreciate and end to these tactics.
Dan.
Dan McLean Jr
Daegs
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My favorite part of this thread is that if you know who Thomas Wayne is, and know who Jonathan Townsend is, then you don't even need to bother reading any of the post....

Anyone who's been in contact with Mr. Wayne for even a short while knows what type of person he is, and should know accourdingly to disregard just about anything he says, especially in matters like this.

Good luck argueing guys, it's pointless as you can never alter Wayne's views on anything no matter how much logic there is in the right viewpoint....
Micheal Leath
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I'm no expert on the subject, but I do know that everytime the subject of 3fly is brought up, then Jonathan starts complaining about not being given enough credit or pretty much says that his effect was stolen from him. I mean no disrespect, but get over it. Magic grows by improving on the work of others and that is exactly what magicians like Kenner have done. Kenner does give credit to Jonathan, so how has any wrong been done? According to Jonathan, everyone who now performs a version of 3fly is stealing from him. It's time to move on and keep improving on what has come before us.
mystre71
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Quote:
On 2005-01-30 20:28, Micheal Leath wrote:
I'm no expert on the subject, but I do know that everytime the subject of 3fly is brought up, then Jonathan starts complaining about not being given enough credit or pretty much says that his effect was stolen from him. I mean no disrespect, but get over it. Magic grows by improving on the work of others and that is exactly what magicians like Kenner have done. Kenner does give credit to Jonathan, so how has any wrong been done? According to Jonathan, everyone who now performs a version of 3fly is stealing from him. It's time to move on and keep improving on what has come before us.


Micheal, Let's say you come up with an routine, you haven't finished exploring all of your own ideas of this routine, but you show me your work in progress.
I like what I saw, so without asking, I go home work on it and publish my take on it, before you've had a chance to finish your own work on it or even publish it.Do you think that would be right? No it wouldn't. It also wouldn't be very respectful.

Now had I ask and was granted permission that would have been a different story.

Best,
Joe
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Danny Boy
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I met Mr. Wayne only breifly at this past WMS. I talked with him for a few moments and I doubt he even remembers me, there were so many of us teens there that I'm sure most of us blended into one. Both Mr. Wayne and the young man who I had the pleasure of competing against are two of the nicest alaskans I have ever met..haha...two of the nicest people I've met. It seems to me that we should not yelp at him for expressing what he did, he is obviously passionate about it and deserves to be heard. The magic community is a brotherhood and we have to remember that, brothers have disputes but they are still brothers. Whether you agree with him or disagree with him, remember that we have the ability to have opinions and voice them. If we were all the same then nobody would stand out and we wouldnt have lance Burton's or Pete Biro's because we'd all have the same views and performing styles. Embrace it, you don't have to like it, but appreciate where its coming from.

Stepping off the soapbox now and walking to the armchair to play quarterback before I drive from the backseat.

Dan
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Micheal Leath
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Jonathan, I do believe you deserve credit. I'm sure you have created some great stuff. Right or wrong, what has been done has been done and credit has been given.

I would have no problem with someone improving on something I showed them. Like I said, that is how magic grows. If they do take something I showed them and make improvements, all I would ask is that I get credit for showing them. That is exactly what Kenner did. It is not like Kenner took exactly what he was showed and published it as his own. I do not believe it was his intention to steal from Jonathan. Again, I'm not claiming to be an expert at the subject. All I know is what has been posted on the Café.

To those who insist on bashing those who disagree with you, do you think you are setting a good example to the younger ones who visit this forum? I see it all the time here and it is immature. Sorry, but that is how I feel. You may not agree with what Thomas Wayne says, but he is entitled to say what thinks just as well as anyone else. He does bring up some good points, but some choose to completely ignore them and bash him. For once can some of you just agree to disagree?
Craig Ousterling
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I worked with two other gentlemen on a public access television show in the California bay area. The W.A.V.E awards were approaching. It's something like the western third of the US' public access television stations competing against each other producing a 2 minute 'commercial' for your own show.

I had the equipment and a solid knowledge of editing and shooting. I put the most of whole thing together: from making a soundtrack and adding sound fx to shooting material and editing the whole thing. "One" of the other two guys was sort of helping me.

Awards night, and the piece "we" submitted (my piece) received first place. I was there to see it presented. However my name was not called to go up to the podium and accept the awards with the other two gentlemen. My name was not on the award plaque or on the bigscreen display behind the podium. The only thing I got was a mention in the "I would like to thank the following people" list. Bitter? yeah- A little.

To the point: everytime the subject of video/tv/filming work is brought up, I'm reminded of not being properly credited for doing MOST of the work involved in that situation. Did I mention EVERYTIME the subject is brought up this happens?

I think I understand some of the emotions Jon might go through when being reminded of the situation he was in. If I were Mr. Townsend I'd retort by telling Thomas Wayne just because YOU'RE losing a battle with alcoholism and feel the need to SPOUT OFF about something that didn't DIRECTLY involve YOU to shut yer pie hole Mister. And use your time more wisely in the Betty Ford clinic.

But I'm not Mr. Townsend.

@Thomas Wayne- I don't "know" Mr. Townsend personally. We have exchanged some emails. He seems to me a talented and nice person. I'm in Jon's corner on this one. After reading posts and information on this subject I believe the MEAT AND POTATOES is Jon's idea. I think 'others' took that idea and changed some things and then published "their stuff". I now believe other very talented workers are going to "hold back" from the community and each other. (I certainly would). And THAT saddens me. It seems to be because crediting ettiquette has no rules. Some people are polite about it and some aren't. Sometimes by mistake and sometimes on purpose.

~Craig Ousterling
Paul Sherman
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Deletion in 5...4...3...2...
"The finished card expert considers nothing too trivial that in any way contributes to his success..." Erdnase



some youtube videos
Dan Watkins
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Quote:
On 2005-01-31 00:31, GreyGhost wrote:
I now believe other very talented workers are going to "hold back" from the community and each other.


Not to ignore the body of your post or to change the subject, I just thought I'd say that I think every magicain that invents magic does this. I know I have pet stuff that I'll never publish. I think this is the case and always will be the case, regardless of what happened to Jon Townsend 15 years ago.

Some stuff people will share, some stuff people won't.

Paul, you see the train wreck coming too I see Smile Is it time to get off the tracks?
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CardiniMan
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Paul Sherman is my new hero!
tpdmagic
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Lets change the thread to why are magicians such jerks? Everyone that spends there time attacking others must have the confidense of a rock. In fact they must not spend that much time on the art of magic as it takes a lot of time and energy to come up with this kind of rubish!

tpdmagic
Craig Ousterling
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@Dan- I hear you. I would still think someone such as yourself would be upset if someone sees you perform a pet effect, then reverse engineers it, changes a little bit but not enough for you not to recognize it as 'your working idea'. Then publish "their" material.

I realize my post might have had a harsh tone... but I think Wayne is going for reactions like that. Maybe he's trying to get a job at the national enquirer or maybe even FOX news. I however don't think he's trying to post a relevant topic for discussion here, I think he's taking a jabbing at Townsend. So does most everyone else here.

Some people are staying out of this. Some people are tired of hearing Mr. Townsend post "that's mine"... I've been there but in a different field. It's frustrating and if it continues to be brought up it can get downright annoying. People like Mr. Wayne should let it go.... not Mr. Townsend.

~Craig
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