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SpAgHeTtI
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Well, I suppose you use your NW and PW also on billets isn't it?You also uses sleight of hand...

I understand that probably you prefer an impression pad to a peek or to a CT ( even if I have the intuition tha you don't dislike the PCT...) but what I don't understand is why you HATE billet work....also impression pads are old....
ChristopherWallace
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Quote:
On 2005-02-02 16:35, SpAgHeTtI wrote:
Well, I suppose you use your NW and PW also on billets isn't it?You also uses sleight of hand...

I understand that probably you prefer an impression pad to a peek or to a CT ( even if I have the intuition tha you don't dislike the PCT...) but what I don't understand is why you HATE billet work....also impression pads are old....


I'll clarify. I hate spectators writing on billets which I then handle.

I use sleight of hand for a number of effects including metal bending.

Impression pads allow for the use non-handling of the spectator's information and I never use them for 'thoughts' only pictures. FYI, CT's are not my bag.

Impression pads are nowhere near as old as billets are. In fact, I have been using my Janus Pad for only a couple of months ;-)

I also use electronics.
"The reason God gave us fingers is so we could hold a razor"
Alexander Marsh
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LOOK some people have decided, hopefully after expermenting with them, to stop using method X for reasons Y and Z.
For example, I HATE book tests (means to select a random word my ass) and you cant change my mind no matter what method is shown to me. If, however I come up with an idea for an effect, and it involves a book, and the methods for book tests can be used, I will see whats out there.

As for me, right now, I will personaly use every trick in the book, in every book, DVD etc. if it can achive what I wish to happen in an effect.
SpAgHeTtI
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Thx ChristopherWallace now I understand your point of view....I'm a little slow....ihihihihi Smile
mysticz
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Using an impression pad is not really that much different from using a billet move or a CT -- the participant is still asked to write their thoughts onto paper and you will need to justify that in your presentation. A good billet worker can make the billet handling in a routine practically invisible if he/she applies a little thought into his/her overall presentation.

This disagreement over what methodology is better is rather silly from the start. These methods are merely tools to be used in creation of an effective mentalism performance. The smart and talented performers will be able to use any of these devices in a manner that is both mystifying and entertaining.

Joe Z.
Joe Zabel
"Psychic Sorcery"

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

-- Shakespeare's Hamlet I.v. 174-175
RickSilmser
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I have stired a demon I see...good ! Then I have just accomplished exactly what I set out to do...for you to look at yourself as the performer you are or the perfromer you could be. It's not just billet work I speak of...it's how you do ANY mental effect from A to Z !

Some of you can't see past your own nose in my original posting,I can tell that by your responce. It's not who is better than who or I'm better than you, or what method is better or what effect is better...it's all about being a better Mentalist than what you are now...the exrta mile...the personal challenge.

And if you get mad at me for giving you a kick in the pants for being the lay back and "do what the rest are doing" kind of performer, then good on me again, at least I got you thinking. Now...next time you catch your reflection in the mirror, ask yourself..."is that a mentalist I see or just a mental magician" ?

If you don't agree with my original posting, no worries all it means is that you don't believe in self improvment and that there is no room for you to improve and you think your act is flawless...I'll take something in a size 11, black leather, please...

Come on guys, read between the lines.

~Rick~
Alexander Marsh
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Rick, I understand you reasons and motivation behind such postings, and they are very good reasons and motivations but they don't always get communicated in the way you intend.

"The meaning of the communication is the responce you get" (NO, I'm not an NLP Junkie, its just bloody common sence) and as you cant, nay shouldnt, control someones 'responce' YOU have to CHANGE your COMMUNICATION.
RickSilmser
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Hi ya, Magi...
Control ? never ! Shoot from the hip ? Alaways! Some people just don't like to be told how it is. I don't sugar coat anything. I refuse to coddle anyone, they are all grown ups. I believe in getting to the brass wire as soon as I can.

I'm tired of seeing the title of "Mentalist" being self imposed. It's earned, and it's not earned by owning a crap load of someone elses routines and knowing what "so and so" is doing and saying and selling.

Some people are losing focus on what a Mentalist is and does and how to get there. I simply offer advice from 25 years of trial and error and mistakes and sometimes , conquests. It was just chewed the wrong way by some of the young pups just new to the business (yes, 3 or even 5 years is still new)

So, as they say..."that is that"

~Rick~

LOL@ "psychologically invisible"
*talking to someone who just filled out a slip of paper*...
"Miss, would you please forget you just wrote something down ? Thanks" ! (now that's logic).

~Rick~
Stephen Long
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Rick,
Kindly define the term 'mentalist' for those of us who are too ignorant to understand.

P.S. Can one "stir a demon"? That's a new one to me...
Hello.
Alexander Marsh
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I think I see where your going with this one Stephan......

So please Rick, define the term mentalist for us. This is not an attack but a kind, gentle, mewing request.
RickSilmser
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Stephen...define the word Mentalist,okay, you may not like the answer. But how I define the term mentalist is with words like Dunninger, Kreskin, Ireland, Jacks, Slade, Reese, Fogel, Annemann, The Tuckers, The Evasons, Stokes, Koran, and the list goes on.

These people define the title "Mentalist" and "Mentalism" all in their own way, all of these people were/are innovators who went to the top for one reason or another. These were/are people who didn't lay back and let someone else do the work for them. As I said, they Dunningerized it, Kreskinized it, Fogelized it...and so on

And, also, I'm not going to fight with anyone about this thread, when you get to be 40 years old, you'll suddenely realize just how much sense my thread made...take a copy of it and read it in 20 years.

~Rick~
P.S. "stiring a deamon"...Stephen, it's an expression, like "open a can of worms" like "threw gas of the flame", you know what I mean.

Unfortunately I have brused some ego here and that has blinded you to what the point is...if I have done this, I do apologize, it was not my intent. We obviously don't have a common frame of reference here due to the age and inexperience difference, but as I said, take a copy of my original posting on this subject and read it in 20 years. I've just about said all I can on this topic, anything else would be "flogging a dead horse"


~Rick~
Alexander Marsh
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If you don't mind my going back to the define mentalism/mentlaist question......

Indeed you gave us just names and if we look deeper we see that these names represent a hole bunch of things in your mind, Rick.

Perhapes it was Dunningers thinkng behind effects, or his presence, or his absolute insistence, when asked that he could read minds (I don't know much about him by the way.) that makes him appeal to you and be what you see, hear and feel is mentlaism.

But I think what we, well at least me, was what is your 'vision', what is mentalism all about to you. If you like, what is the premis of your show/performance.
It will help guid our opinions of you. Many of which are deminishing down the pan.

Is it all about psychic phenomenon? All about the mind? All about exposing fraudulent psychics? All about you? Is it the creation of a feeling in your audience?
RickSilmser
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Matt...read "TGENTLE"'s answer to my posting...page one, second answer in...I believe he got the meaning behind my idea. Alex...I defined what a Mentalist is..."a person highly skilled in the art of stage mindreading"...doing someone else's routine is not highly skilled.

The inventor is skilled for coming up with the idea. All I'm saying is, take that effect and idea and be a rogue with it...turn heads with it, just don't follow the enclosed routine, go that extra mile with it...but that's too difficult for some guys to understand.

Remember that fellow who masked himself and exposed all of the basic methods in magic several years ago on TV ?

That was probably the best thing that could have happened to magic. it told the magicians to get off their butts and do it differently and be an innovator.

I'm not against new ideas or new effects...all I'm saying is...throw away the routine portion of the instructions and develope your own...that way nobody can say "oh I saw some guy do that very same thing last week"...

~Rick~
Stephen Long
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Rick, I wasn't trying to "catch you up" on anything. I was trying to make a point by asking a question. Who are we to define the term 'mentalist'? Why do we care what one is? I've never been called a 'mentalist' and won't be upset if I never am; I think it's a bit of a ridiculous and silly label to go by. Personally, I'd rather be a great performer than a great 'mentalist'.

And for one who preaches the importance of 'leading' so much, you certainly refer to your idols a lot - it seems to be perfectly acceptable in your eyes to 'follow' their example.

I don't have much of a problem with your point, Rick. It's fine. But there's a lot to be said for social grace. And that's something that it seems no amount of experience can teach.

With fondest wishes,
Stephen "the kid" Long
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RickSilmser
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Stephen, please forgive my assumption. I could not agree with you more. You have a great outlook on things. But remember, to be a great performer, you must be the sore thumb and stick out from the rest.

I refer to Dunninger alot, yes, he is my idol. I look at it like this...we all have to believe in the theory of at least one person to base our own work on. I'm not saying be like that person, I'm saying stand on their shoulders (so to speak). Einstein had a theory and many people stood on his shoulders based on his theory, Houdini had a theory and people stand on his shoulders...well, the same with Dunninger or whoever your "idol" is.

~Rick~
bobser
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Rick,
Let me say that you personally are very probably a really nice guy.
It's just that you don't come across as being that worldly... nor indeed wordy. Get my drift? Believe me when it comes to winning friends and influencing people you just ain't in possession of 'the gift' man.
I think if you read the replies, not necessarily between the lines, (many of them from working pros like myself) you'll find that your dissertation has been found wanting.
Now... I want you to think about that. And how you approach the guys in future.
Okay dokay?

Bobser.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
RickSilmser
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Well, ur right...but on the other hand, because you or they don't agree with me, it dosen't mean I'm wrong. I just call a spade a spade and I'm not going to coddle anyone with sugar coated words.

All I was saying with my original post was..."be different" "be your own Mentalist" "innovate" "lead" "go the extra mile" "experiment" and...."throw away someone's else's suggested version of the routine and make your own".

I'm not saying new effects like the "super dooper whim wam psychic peek board" are bad...all I'm saying is...scrap whats suggested to you as far as a routine goes and use your own brain. The inventor of that effect dosen't know you or you're Aunt Tilly, so how can they suggest a routine ?

That's it ! that's all I said. I didn't name names, I didn't put down anyones effects, I didn't say "do it my way", did I. You guys are taking this posting far too personally and it's very obvious that you really don't understand me or why I posted it in the first place.

~Rick~
MR2Guy
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Rick

Basically, I couldn't agree more, push the envelope.Take chances, always. Try the hard stuff, muscle reading, cold reading, pencil reading, lip reading, fill-in-the-blank reading takes years of practice, for instance, you are not going to learn it off a DVD. Predicting a birthday is one thing, but predicting the name of the last person who just died in the emergency room takes things a bit further.

Jason
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There are no absolutes.
Dark Thought 13
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Mentalism is without doubt an art form, an art form with it's core around entertainment. There are many ways to handle entertainment, approach, methology, audience perception, humour, style so on and so on. Rick makes a point but he doesn't make it in the best way as what suits one performer is one thing as well as what entertains an audience..

I like, most here have seen a great deal of Magic, Mentalism, Mental Magic, Illusion. I have seen 'Pure' mentalism delivered exceptionally well by a top name absolutely flop in front of an audience. By complete reversal the very next performer came on and did a standard book test, tossed out deck, bank night and finished with a chair routine. He stole the show, not for his invisible props, billets or psychological technique but for the mere fact that he was entertaining, had a sense of humour and encouraged his audience to take part.

Who were the audience talking about afterwards... you know the answer.
and in their conversations what performer got "How on earth did he know what I was thinking?" "How did he know I'd end up in that chair?".... again you know the answer..

The audience has to like you period, if they like you they don't really care what you use and how you use it.. they join you for the journey..

If Dunninger was around today people wouldn't buy his "Look at me with my super mind!" approach, it is dated.. Back then audiences where far easier to convince you had a special something be it psychic, psychological or some super trained 5 senses..

In todays world audiences won't except someone on stage performing in that way, they'll get bored and challenge the guy on stage..

My definition of a mentalist is someone who performs entertainment based around the five senses, predicts outcomes, reads people, actions, choices. I don't think being a mentalist is something that is earnt at all..

If you fix a car your a mechanic, if you fix people your a doctor or nurse. If you perform magic your a magician and if you read minds in one way or another your a mentalist..

A artist paints a picture another artist hates it.. "He doesn't use my technique, he doesn't paint like me he is no artist!" meanwhile others buy his work constantly. Do they see him as an artist.. of course they do..

A valied post Rick but I feel delivered as a law when it is only your opinion of which you are entitled to.. but it is no law..

DT13
"I love the one with the plastic thumb!"
Someone who has seen a s*** magician
Alexander Marsh
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All well said DT13.
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