Hello everyone!

All of us work with Bicycles, Tallies etc etc. These get so quickly worn that make our performance difficult with DLs, passes etc and on top of that we are forced to buy dozens of decks each time.

By accident, I checked a 7 yrs old deck of genuine plastic cards (italcards is the brand - unfortunately out of business now). Although it was heavily used, I was able to perform much easier doubles (perfect alignment), riffle passes (no permanent bents at cards), elmesleys etc etc. I was amazed and I thought why not take few decks of those and keep them almost for ever and to actually cope with cards of almost SAME & STABLE quality through time... (that also do not get black from dirt on their sides)

Of course I cant tear them etc but at the end I strongly believe that it is a very cost efficient way and most importantly these cards never die so you don't find yourself always seeing your cards ageing up, being dirty, having horrible bents etc.

What do you fellow performers think?

Bests to all of you!

I think it's okay to use generic plastic cards. In fact a friend of mine suggested me to practice with those cards, because they don't wear out as easy. Those cards would also save money, especially when you get them from Wal-mart or something

Hi folks,

I am not really sure is it the plastic decks that you mentioned is it same which sold at my local bookshop.

The cards are soft but however, when you want to execute any sleights, it is not very easy.

But, it's fun to use I to perform flourishes and etc.

Best,
Andrew Loh

@ Jhonsky: I think that the deck you practice should be the same with the one you plan to perform out there - otherwise you will find yourself doing many mistakes...

@ Andrew: It's not that easy to tell which deck is best-suited for sleights etc but I can tell for granted that those italcards were amazing - a sure bet... Unfortunately they are out of business now and we may only hope to any willing member of this forum to suggest us any alternative brand.

The question remains though: why if plastic cards (as italcards that I witnessed) perform so well, then no one uses them and even more no magic outlet sells them????

Bests

A few reasons why I don't like plastic cards:
* They are totally crap for fanning
* They come in bridge size
* Many sleights are more difficult to perform with them, for example multiple lifts (yes I know you said that they are easier but I disagree lol)
* You cant use them in T/R effects
* They don't smell as good as "real" cards lol
* Backdesigns are usually not even close to the quality and style of Poker cards

:wavey:

The Card Collection sell a poker sized deck of plastic cards manufactured by Fournier. I use them regularly and they are perfect for faro routines. They remain perfectly flat and so are useful for perfect double lifts etc.

@Poinstack: thnx for the suggestion. I checked out the website, is the particular deck the Fournier 2508? Are you happy with it regarding any other sleights you work with?
You see, I am really willing to go for such a deck, price is 3 times up but it will last so longer...

I've used both Bicycle, Tally-Ho and Fournier decks. Fournier cards are good and in fact they last a little bit longer than Bikes. Great magicians like Lennart Green, Juan Tamariz and Luis de Matos (one of the best stage magicians in the world - a Portuguese magician). Personnaly, I prefer the U.S ones than the Spanish ones but each magician has its own feel and taste! As far as I'm concerned Fournier 404 are the best ones in plastic cards - they come poker size and you can do fans, DL's, passes and whatsoever...

I searched the web but found no source for the Fournier 404. Where did you buy them from? Card Collection doesn't stock them and I checked the Fournier site and there is no info on model numbers so I have not even a clue about its design...

Please JoaoPedro, tell if possible from where we may get hold of those...

I use some PVC cards to make my Invisible Decks with. They resist humidity better than any ID I've ever used. The r**ghing is dependable, especially when I rub the sm**th sides with Cashmere Bouquet soap.

Are we talking about plastic 'finish' (e.g. USPCC Streamline and Fournier) or 100% plastic made cards (e.g KEM).

There is a major difference!

The point is they are economical for practicing.
I only use plastics but I am not a magician I am a gambler. What you can do with them is Shuffle Work, False dealing and Palming in fact there is little you can not do with them.
These are very good and cost about £4 a deck: They are Poker size. I have seen them advertised as plastic coated but they are in fact 100% plastic.
They have a rough feel to them, giving a great friction for false dealing. You can, well I can, do a perfect riffle table faro with them far easier than I can with Bicycle.
You can not fan them but that is about it.
Wash them now and again and you have a new deck. I bought a few decks but I have needed to open one. I have give them some tough work for about 3 months and they are still like new.
These ones are very much like Kems. Beware you can buy cheap 100% plastics that are indeed rubbish to do any kind of work with. But these Dal Negro Torcello poker cards are good and used in some casinos. Kems are also good but expensive, in the UK they cast about £15 a deck.

dalnegro

Also Copag 100% plastics are good.

It really depends, for some effects I think bee's and tally-ho's just feel a lot more smooth than kem's. Try them out and see what feels most natural to you.

Felix beat me to it. I have to concur on all of these points. I've tried using Kems and other than the fact that you can shoot them (long distance spinner) like there's no tomorrow, they have proven otherwise useless to me.

Which is a shame, the Kem arrow-backs have a beautiful design! Oh well.

Most magicians don't use Kems because they're horrible for handling. Great for playing games, but you just can't use them for many sleights.

I checked out the Dal Negro Torcello ones and they come to a very reasonable price too (2,75 UK pounds). Is any other one of you having any experience on the handling of the particular PVC deck with sleights?

Any suggesstions are more than welcomed.

Bests

So you are a GAMBLER that uses plastic cards?

Casinos allows you to take your own cards along then? I'd love to know where, as it might give me a slight advantage! Or do you gamble at home? If so, you must have very trusting 'friends' that allow you to always use the same deck. Make sure they do not see you false dealing mate - you may lose a few of them (as well as your teeth)!

Or do you mean you are a card magician that performs gambling routines? If so that's okay!

Canvey Card Sharp

Was it you I saw in the casino playing the Coca Cola machine and trying to win a can of Coke?

I run a poker game and Kem cards are used there. Kem cards are also used in Casinos, not my Kems, the casinos buy their own. Some casinos use Dal Negro cards, again not my Dal Negros but their own.

I use the Dal Negros and Kems to practice Cardsharping work and then look for guys who think they have won a can of coke.

I will take your advice and be careful that they do not see me false dealing but take my advise and do as you please.

Tommy

Sorry...I made a mistake...it's fournier 505 and not 404. It's the standard fournier deck, poker size.
Cheers,

I agree. Worst Cards I've ever touched. And at $30 a deck....