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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Polly wants a cracker... » » What is the best vanishing birdcage? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Jeff Kellogg
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All magic has been done before, it is just the presentation that differs. I believe that I have quite a good presentation for vanishing the cage that is quite original when compared with other magicians. This is why I am not concerned with the idea of performing the effect considering that laymen have seen it before. The ending to my act has always been the doves to rabbit.

My problem was that I could only use 4 or my birds. After stumbling onto a great presentational idea for the vanishing cage, I've come to the decision that that's what I want. I appreciate all of your ideas for new endings such as the idea of dove to botania. But I'm looking for all of the information on the Nielson cage and the Proline Cage. Thanks a lot Christopher for your post, lots of AWESOME answers that I was looking for. I've got another question for you and anyone else who might own a Proline cage: Does the whole cage fit into the case that you buy from Tillford now-a-days? Something I am concerned with is being able to carry the whole cage in one case. I've always been able to carry my whole act in one trip and it is something I do not want to sacrifice. Once a gain thanks for all of your posts. - Jeff
Christopher Moro
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Thanks for the props, Jeff. I know if I were in your position (and I was) I'd want the most nfo as possible. -- As for the case, I did not buy my cage from Tilford, so I cannot say much about that. I purchased mine from Stevens when they were carrying the cage (they still might, they are one of the nicest dealers) and I later got a custom ATA case made by another company, which measures: 30 1/2 " X 7 1/2" X 26 1/4" and as mentioned before, holds the table and pole nice and snug between high density foam. Here's something funny - after you add the cost of the custom case and shipping to the Proline cage...it cost the same as a Neilsen (Which comes with a case that holds everything and is much more compact!). If you want to carry your whole act in one case, you can always measure the cage plus your other props, draw something up, and get a case company to build one that is exactly what you need. So, if you selected the Neilsen, you could have Norm's case as an interim case and then transfer it into your special case...and if you select the Proline, you could get it without a case, carry it around in a padded suitcase in the interim before transferring it to your special case. -- After all this thinking and trouble, doesn't it make you stop and sat..."Hmmm, maybe I should focus all this energy into a unique dove act ending that is all my own." ? Well, it made me think that! Smile -- All my best.
Nick Wait
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What do you think of the cage and how many doves does it hold?
Jeff Kellogg
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All of the props for my act fit into the base of my doves to rabbit. That's how I packed my act before. I asume that the Nielson cage will have enough room if not more. So I don't think I will need a custom case built for it. Thanks a lot to everyone on the post you have made, If it weren't for the magic Café, I'd have no idea what was going on with these cages, and I'd have no idea how to make a decision. I think I've made mine here; the Nielson. It has been said to be the best, and I have found it to be the best for me. Thanks again so much guys. -Jeff
Christopher Moro
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Walsall -- to which cage are you referring? Proline can hold 6 if you get the birds to sit close together. Neislen holds 6 a bit easier.
Jeff -- contact Norm Neilsen about the case. I am only familiar with the black, velvet-like interior case pictured on his website, not the new ATA that comes with the cage. And I know the original case has absolutely no room for anything but the cage itself.
DaveWomach
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Dave Womach
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If your lighting is right, the Nielson and the Proline cages are both great, and look very deceptive. I have used the Proline enough to know that it is garbage. I've now been using the Nielson cage for 5 years, and it's been great.

The Nielson Case will not protect your prop well enough for airline travel. I had an ata case made for mine. The whole unit weighs 64 lbs. (That's with a case with 3/8" walls... you could cut weight buy using 1/4" walls.)

Hope this helps.

Dave
hugmagic
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I agree that presentation is everything. And I also do not worry about magicians doing this as I do not base my act on what magicians like but what the public will buy.

I apologize if I sounded like a salesman on the Dove to Botania idea. I was just trying to give another perspective. I certainly respect your thoughts on what you need and want for your act.

Sound like the concensus is Neilsen cage. I agree with Dave as for getting a good ATA case made for it. Another option that might help with the weight problem is a good molded fiberglass case if you could find one to fit. The ATA cases add so much weight just for the case. But then a good airline can put a forklift through anything.
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
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Christopher Moro
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Nice to hear your input, Dave Womach (you have some really nice effects in your act, by the way). Just for my own curiosity, which version of the Proline Cage do you have experience with? I don't think the Mark 2 I have is "garbage," but I do have some qualms about it - as you can see in my previous post. It's just a rare thing for me to hear from another magician who has a similar opinion on the Proline.

HUGMAGIC - Your perspective was terrific. Truth is, even though the vanishing cage is a great effect, it is indeed "tired."

And I just checked Neilsen's website - The cage already comes with an ATA case (not pictured)
Nachtzehrer
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One question to your guys, my dove cage (built by a builder here in Portugal) just broke completely after a year of use (a show a day). I know, you get what you pay for, but I paid 1000 € for mine and yet, it is sh&&. However, I'm going to buy a new one, and I am very interested in the Nielsen one, however, not have a floor is a big deal for me, because on the stages I work, people are close and if thy get up and look and the cage they are going to spot the base, so I really need a cage with a floor.

So, for you guys that have the Nielsen one, can you add a floor to it, or do you know of, by request Nielsen will do it?

Thanks for your time.
Alex
Alex
DaveWomach
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Dave Womach
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I don't remember which Proline I used, but it sucked the cloth in when I did the "move", and adding a heavier cloth did nothing to help it. So when I say it sucks, I guess I really mean it. It was several years ago, so maybe he's improved the cage since then.

I have to be honest too, I am not a fan of anything Tilford. I think he's a thief, and I will never do ANY business with him, whether he makes the props, or just sells them. This is just MY own opinion. And I'm not only refering to the vanishing dove cage when I say this. That can be argued... but anyway, I'm not here to bash Tilford. Although I appreciate the opportunity.

Norm's cage is great. I've never had anyone say, "Hey, there's no floor!" You could easily ad one if you're worried about it hanging it from the top. You could probably do it yourself in just a couple hours.

I just want to say, if you're using a Proline, and it's working for you, then good. I'm happy for you. For me, it didn't work. I am not in anyway bashing people who use this cage. These are just my experiences and thoughts...

Dave
Nachtzehrer
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Yes, perhaps the people don't say anything or don't even notice, but imagine a dove jumps out of the perch. Without a floor that would give the trick away as you would see the head of the dove and the rest would "vanish".
That is my main problem.
Alex
Christopher Moro
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Good points. YES, my cage (1999) sucked the cloth in too. I actually had to get a new piston made that actually worked properly so that I could adjust and make the vanish slower so that wouldn't happen. The longer cloth did nothing to help because the sides still sucked in. That and I had premature collapsing.

I have no experience whatsoever with Mr. Tilford, but he just sells the cages (like Stevens). Proline is made by a gentleman named Cliff Wiggs.

I have seen a fellow magician perform with the Neilsen, and yes, one of the doves jumped off the perch and "vanished." However, you have to ask yourself if the audience will notice. After you have a few birds in there, will they notice that one is missing? And the audience should be watching you, not staring at the doves' activity in the cage. Having said that, it's still possible one could hop off the perch while you are calling attention to the cage, say when covering it with the cloth so.... With the Proline cage, I have had maybe just half a dozen or so (at most) times when a dove jumped off the perch. Even on the proline, the floor doesn't hold up the weight, it dips a little if a dove sits on it.
Dave is right, you can add a floor yourself if you put your mind to it. You won't have a border due to the way the bars are, however.
PS - For $3000, you can design a custom finale effect and get it built! Food for thought.
DaveWomach
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I have taken the screw out of the bottom of my cage, to allow for a lightning fast drop, and still have no problem with the sucking. But it sounds like the proline has been improved. And please understand my words have not in any way been a personal attack on Cliff Wiggs, just Proline.

I've had the doves "vanish" by jumping into the bottom. But nobody's ever said anything about it. And usually it's just one of the doves.

I agree with Chris though, if you're going to spend the money, you are better off to create your own effect.

Dave
Nachtzehrer
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Well, I say that because I saw that happen to magician and you could only see the head of the dove. That really gives the thing away. If the dove would be hidden totally it wouldn't matter that much, but seeing just the head of the dove?
Alex
Alex
Christopher Moro
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Thanks Dave. Alex, you might want to add a cage floor for sure then.
dove-boy
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Joe Yu (Stage Name)
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Hi Smile

YES! My Proline Dove cage suck in the air too Smile Mine I bought in June 2002....the cloth provided by Proline is just too short....not usable Smile

I changed my to Better quality & nicer looking cloth ...THICKER, HEAVIER, & LONGER version, this will solve the problem...no point adjusting the speed....too fast, the dove will get scare... Smile

To Pay US$3000 for a Nielsen version WITHOUT base (Not mentioning I don't like base with 3 legs), I rather have one custom made....check out OZ Illusion, they have a nice looking one with base(cheaper too) OR if you can, go for custom made one from Owen or Bill Smile

Hope this helps Smile
Jeff Kellogg
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Dave, Thanks for all your fantastic output. I was just waiting for someone to say the Proline was crap, to confirm my suspisions. I have heard that Tilford is not a good business to deal through, and I'm not a big fan of supporting anything with a bad reputation. When you say that the case that Mr. Nielson supplies does not work for airlines, is it the new case ATA stlye case that you refer to, or did you get your cage with the older style case?
Thanks- Jeff
DaveWomach
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Dave Womach
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This was the older style case. I am not sure if he's still even using it. Mine now holds my sword through neck. I made my own ata case for the cage. It sounds like he sells it with one now.

Dave
Christopher Moro
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Hi guys - keep in mind that Proline products and Tilford magic are not one and the same. Tilford happens to carry the Proline cage in addition to his own products. Chalet also carries the Proline Cage as does/did Stevens Magic Emporium. So, it might be a bit misleading to relate Tilford's rep with a product that he doesn't manufacture. Having said that, I'll get back to topic at the risk of sounding like I'm defending the Proline Cage -- As mentioned, if I could go back in time, I'd get the Neilsen instead. Smile
sperris
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About the cage cloth, the vanishing dove cage is an old effect that has a lot more thinking into it than just the little click to make it vanish. There are lots of little tricks that I think have been lots over the years. I was fortunate enough to pick up a few from an old magic friend who has 5 Neilson cages, 2 of which are from the first like 12 Norm made. One of the tricks is to push the cloth forward about an inch before you vanish it to allow air under the cloth. This will make the cloth move less when the cage vanishes and not suck in.
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