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GeorgeSantos Inner circle San Diego, CA 1106 Posts |
I came across this. http://www.penguinmagic.com/product.php?ID=970
Is it new? Any reviews?
"David Roth is the greatest coin manipulator in the entire world.."
-Dai Vernon "The Professor" I AM A FILIPINO MAGICIAN |
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Alym Amlani Inner circle Canada 1464 Posts |
Is those effects theirs to sell??!?!
Logic Defied
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
Looks kinda cool.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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zur Special user California 671 Posts |
http://magicmakersinc.com/UNDERGROUNDTRAILER.wmv
penguin magic has a thread about it: http://www.penguinmagic.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?t=72760 |
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ashah Elite user 474 Posts |
This is strange. They did credit a bunch of people, but did they obtain permission? I saw the demo video and noticed Crazy Man's Handcuffs, a coin vanish from Cultural Exchange, something reminiscent of Ben Harris' Exit 51 or Paul Harris' Vanishing Deck, and something that looked like Pinnacle.
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Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
It has the Wonderland Bill on it. I was hoping this would go away so I could perform it all to myself!!!
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
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truthteller Inner circle 2584 Posts |
Roger "Clause". Bill "Kaluse". Yep, those guys sure know how to credit. I suppose someone on the phone told them how to cover their a**. They spelled them phonetically correctly, but clearly have no clue whom they are taking from.
And let's not forget, there is a difference between credit and permission. You can copy pages from my book and credit them, but that does not mean you have permission to publish them. MM. The Vultures of Magic. Happily profiting from other's labors. |
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harishjose Special user 932 Posts |
"Most sought after DVD in magic?"
OKKKKKKKK Whats the deal with MM? This reminds me of the Masked Magi era.
To believe is Magic.
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harishjose Special user 932 Posts |
OMG.
DId someone see the price? $34.95 I guess its because MM wants to give money to the magicians from whom they take the secrets..... COmeon guys, atleast they credited the magicians.
To believe is Magic.
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irishguy Special user Ohio 629 Posts |
Magic Fork Break: Uri Geller.
Impossible Spoon Twist: Uri Geller. OK...is Uri admitting he is a magician now? |
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v3g4 New user 9 Posts |
This GUY ROB stiff is stealing everyone's WORK and then selling it , someone should take action against him , first he ripped all flourish material of other guys and made his own dvd and sold it, now he is selling other magicians work as his and without thier permission in addition he doesn't even gives credit all he does is he posts the name of magicians who came up with those tricks.WHAT is happening sooner or later he will rip every other magician work.SOMEONE please take action..
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Steve Oxford Regular user Churchville,MD. 155 Posts |
Hmm...Let's see, Louis Falanga put out a lot of videos in the past like the Ammar card series and coin series, and he gave credit, but did he get permission from each of those people? It seems to me that even when MM tries to do the right thing and give credit, people are still going to B**** about it. So while we are on that subject, Crazy Man's Handcuffs...who originated this???? It was Arthur Setterington in England, and many people took it and altered it bit by bit, so where is teh credit for Mr. Setterington? The version on this dvd by MM and performed by Ben Salinas is closer to the original than any that followed after it, so I would say that this was properly credited.
The vanishing deck, The method to this one is not the same as Paul Harris version, but credit was still given to Harris. The bill switch is actually credited to the right people but again the version here is different as well. And Wonderland bill, did that person get permission from Robert Neal, and David britland??? For me, I think that credits were given correctly, the same as Louis Falanga and anyone else does in this business, but then again this is the magic Café and its goal is to bad mouth MM at all costs right?????? S. |
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Hart Keene Inner circle Eugene, OR 1486 Posts |
[quote]On 2005-02-04 15:04, Steve Oxford wrote:
Hmm...Let's see, Louis Falanga put out a lot of videos in the past like the Ammar card series and coin series, and he gave credit, but did he get permission from each of those people? Hmm...Yes, he did. You can even hear Mike Ammar himself talk about how excited he was when certain individuals gave him permission to include their effects. Perhaps you need to look further into Magic Makers bad history. I should not even need to explain this to you since you seem to be so well informed but I will give you a quick example. Lee Asher has an effect called the Asher twist, which I am sure you are familiar with. A couple months ago Magic Makers released a download called "Ghost Queens". Can you guess what "Ghost Queens" was Steve? that's right, the Asher twist just as Lee performs it, no more, no less(although no one can do this as smooth as Lee, not even the demo video hands). Did they ask for Lee's permission? NO. Did they credit or even let him know that they were going to sell his creation? NO. This is just one example of what Magic Makers has done in the past. So Steve, before you go sticking up for those ethical folks over at Magic Makers do a little investigating and remember: credit and permission are two dfferent words. |
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ashah Elite user 474 Posts |
Well, I'm not sure how clear-cut it is. I agree that MM has put out some stuff (such as Ghost Queens) that they have no business selling. The Asher Twist was invented by Lee Asher and he still sells it; he gave no permission for anyone to sell his idea, and MM was wrong to do so.
However, in this DVD, it seems like most of the effects are kind of "public domain". For example, Crazy Man's Handcuffs has been out for a long time, and many different people have released versions of it. Did Ammar get permission before writing it up in his book or putting it out in the Classic Renditions video? I don't know, but I think not. For effects like that, I think it may be okay to sell it without permission from anyone (although it is ethical to still credit them). On the other hand, I'm pretty sure there are effects in here which are not public domain. In that case, MM should be ashamed, even if they do "credit" people. As Magic w/HART stated, Ammar always got permission from the creators in the Easy to Master series. It is fairly obvious that MM did not get permission from all the creators for this DVD, and there were some cases where they should have. |
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harishjose Special user 932 Posts |
Heres a link that I know has been given like a zillion times. But I think its worth putting here.
http://www.magicunlimited.com/magic_fakers.htm Tells the story of crediting and how people do business in magic.Though the name of the fakers are not given, the most frequent faker in the list is.....Yes you got it right.
To believe is Magic.
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Hart Keene Inner circle Eugene, OR 1486 Posts |
Did Ammar get permission before writing it up in his book or putting it out in the Classic Renditions video? I don't know, but I think not.
You should not bring this up unless you know the facts. This is how rumors get started. |
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ashah Elite user 474 Posts |
You're right, Magic w/HART. I did not mean to do that. What I really meant was that I think it would be okay if he did not get permission, because it's already a common effect. For example, it is not necessary to get permission from anyone before putting out a standard ambitious card or sponge ball routine.
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Hart Keene Inner circle Eugene, OR 1486 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-02-04 17:39, ashah wrote: Cool, I see your point. No harm done. |
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truthteller Inner circle 2584 Posts |
I worked with Ammar on the card and money tapes. I was a contributor and "assistant" to the first, and co-writer/consultant for the latter. I also was research assistant on the cup and ball book.
We contacted every magician, copyright holder, or magician's estate, before putting any material on tape. (And, for the record, at that time L and L had rights to the Vernon material.) Some pieces we even tracked down references beyond those whom we thought had created them. Rather than use this as a license to publish anyway, which MM likes to do, we still made sure we received permission from the person who was our source. (In other words, if in researching we found "so and so's" trick to have been in print before his time, we would not use that as an excuse to put it on the tape, like MM did in their gross rationalizations of the Skinner Monte. No permission = no inclusion.) Further, I'm sick and tired of this stupid "public domain" argument. Specifically, for something to enter "public domain" - a legal term - 70+ years past the life of the creator must pass. Crazy Man's Handcuff's in ANY form is not public domain by the legal definition. Just because lots of magicans are sheep and do the same tricks does not make something "public domain." Every bad karoke singer may like singing "I will Survive" but it is NOT public domain. "Two Card Monte" or more properly Fechter's "Be Honest..." is NOT public domain. This is how it break's down. If I create a trick and publish it, it is yours to perform. If you republish it in your own book or DVD, credit or not, you are stealing my idea. You are making money of my idea. You are a thief. (Legally we can argue this, and I think there are legal grounds that have not been explored in this definition - specifically the laws regarding transcription and translation - but artistically, ethically you are a thief in my mind.) If you want to republish someone's idea ask for permission. If they grant permission, go ahead. If not, you are doing something wrong. Just because it is in print does NOT give anyone permission to republish it with different words or in a different media. Those that do are creative vampires - sucking of the life's blood of those who work to create. They are worthless and deserve to be eradicated from the face of magic. |
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harishjose Special user 932 Posts |
That was a great post, Truth Teller. I appreciate that.
Ammar is a world known and well respected magician. He has worked with so many magicians and he is very friendly in person. He always takes pain in crediting in all his videos and books.
To believe is Magic.
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