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Muddy
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Sometimes I get the feeling that some here believe that the "flap your wings" and "bark like a dog" type of "hypnotism" is the "real thing". Im just curious how many here susbscribe to that belief ...

(hmm ... am I about to be flamed? Smile )
holmes
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I don't believe it is real either
J ack Galloway
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But it can become real as a result of compliance and rationalization constructs of the spectators.

Cheers

Jack
jimtron
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It depends on your definition of "hypnotism" and "real". Muddy, what do you think is real hypnotism?

Hypnotising someone to bark like a dog, etc. is real in the sense that many people can do it. But what exactly is being done by the hypnotist? Is it simply the power of suggestion?

I would be interested in hearing opinions of Café members on what "real hypnotism" is, and what "fake hypnotism" is.
deverett
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You'll have to define "real thing" to give this discussion legs.

Dave Everett
bobser
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Quote:
On 2005-02-06 08:09, Muddy wrote:
Sometimes I get the feeling that some here believe that the "flap your wings" and "bark like a dog" type of "hypnotism" is the "real thing". Im just curious how many here susbscribe to that belief ...


Muddy, your question seems to intimate some form of knowledge on your part. As though you actually know something. Do you? Personally I feel that you probably don't. I don't mean to be rude by the way, let me explain why I say that...

For what it's worth, within the medical profession (mainly psychology) there has long been an argument called 'state versus non state'. In other words whether or not hypnosis is in fact an actual state... or not. And the experts are still arguing the case.
What all of them 'seem' to agree with is the fact that there is no real such thing as an actual 'hypnotist' per say. But rather the patient hypnotises themselves with the aid of a person "we will call a hypnotist".
However, I do believe that to truly hold an opinion on a certain subject it's important to have practised and experienced it. The challenge unfortunately arises with persons who have a very limited knowledge, based on hearsay from others, kinda' like 'Chinese Whispers'? Which of course devalues the whole debate.

Toodlepip.
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shrink
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One of the observations about hypnosis is that it displays the characteristics of states which can change from one to the other in a split second and a conditioned reflex which needs a series of steps to induce. For example what is normally thought of as a deep hypnotic trance needs a series of steps to induce however can be totally terminated with just one word.

For me there seems to be a lot of semantic games going on to either prove or disprove hypnosis exists. I see that hypnosis is just advanced communication with the unconscious part of the mind. that's all I need to be able to utilize and harness this ability..

Shrink
mugician51
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I believe in subtle influence, but I don't think that you can wave a pendulum in front of someone's face, tell them to humiliate themselves and have them actually do what you say. In my experience, if you tell someone to do something they don't want to, they won't do it.
bobser
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Quote:
On 2005-02-06 17:37, mugician51 wrote:
I believe in subtle influence, but I don't think that you can wave a pendulum in front of someone's face, tell them to humiliate themselves and have them actually do what you say. In my experience, if you tell someone to do something they don't want to, they won't do it.


That's right mugician51. However, if you couch your words into something else, and you are an experienced hynotist of course, then there is a good chance that you will in fact be succesful.

Just a quickie on what Shrink said. I have quite a few friends in hynotherapy who will all happily agree that (in therapy) they will be just as succesful with the client in a light trance as someone who might spend 20 mins bringing them deeper. In other words they are saying that the level is NOT neccesarily important as long as positive suggestion id being given. It simply... works.
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MagicalPirate
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I would have to say that if you are still doing bark like a dog or cluck like a chicken routines your show won't be around for long. A modern successful show isn't into humiliating and making your volunteers look stupid. If that's all you are after you may do one show but they won't book you back and if they do no one is going to volunteer for your show.

Martin Smile
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bobser
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Quote:
On 2005-02-06 17:59, MagicalPirate wrote:
I would have to say that if you are still doing bark like a dog or cluck like a chicken routines your show won't be around for long. A modern successful show isn't into humiliating and making your volunteers look stupid. If that's all you are after you may do one show but they won't book you back and if they do no one is going to volunteer for your show.

Martin Smile


Magicalpirate, I am of the same mind as you. However, I think that you and I are both wrong. I say that because I watched a whole group of folks barking and quacking a couple weeks ago, before simulating copulation and much worse, as as the hypnotist truly did the full humiliation thing. The audience? Well I have to say they absolutely loved it!
I'm not making a judgement here. Simply reporting what I witnessed.

This is your local reporter, Bobser, for 'South Today' saying; "Be careful out there".
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
Muddy
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On 2005-02-06 17:24, bobser wrote:


Muddy, your question seems to intimate some form of knowledge on your part. As though you actually know something. Do you? Personally I feel that you probably don't. I don't mean to be rude by the way, let me explain why I say that...

For what it's worth, within the medical profession (mainly psychology) there has long been an argument called 'state versus non state'. In other words whether or not hypnosis is in fact an actual state... or not. And the experts are still arguing the case.
What all of them 'seem' to agree with is the fact that there is no real such thing as an actual 'hypnotist' per say. But rather the patient hypnotises themselves with the aid of a person "we will call a hypnotist".
However, I do believe that to truly hold an opinion on a certain subject it's important to have practised and experienced it. The challenge unfortunately arises with persons who have a very limited knowledge, based on hearsay from others, kinda' like 'Chinese Whispers'? Which of course devalues the whole debate.

Toodlepip.
Bobser.


You are right .. I know nothing ... but you are not being rude at all ... my observations are based on a night club act I saw years ago and a bit of research that suggested to me that such displays are pure showmanship. I could absolutely be wrong about this ... and I am very interested in hearing what professionals in the industry consider to be "real hypnotism" ... let me define that loosely as someone "not just playing along for whatever reason" ...


Just a curious question on my part ... no offense intended and I hope none taken ...

of course, if something is bringing in money and and entertaining the audience, then the whole argument (if there is an argument) is entirely academic ... and moot
kcalB
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Quote:
On 2005-02-06 17:37, mugician51 wrote:
I believe in subtle influence, but I don't think that you can wave a pendulum in front of someone's face, tell them to humiliate themselves and have them actually do what you say. In my experience, if you tell someone to do something they don't want to, they won't do it.


That bit about waving the pendulum in front of a subjects face is pure hollywood and not done by any true hypnotist,.. save for those that would perpetuate the myth by doing promo poses with a swinging watch.

If you want more info do a search on Chevreul's Pendulum and you will find out that it is actually the subject and not the hypnotist that swings the pendulum.
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Partizan
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A fake would say "look into my eyes, look into my eyes. Don't look around my eyes. Look into my eyes, [snap] Only order from the set menu!"

[Pun for UK members]
"You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus."
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MagicalPirate
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Quote:
On 2005-02-06 18:11, bobser wrote:

Magicalpirate, I am of the same mind as you. However, I think that you and I are both wrong. I say that because I watched a whole group of folks barking and quacking a couple weeks ago, before simulating copulation and much worse, as as the hypnotist truly did the full humiliation thing. The audience? Well I have to say they absolutely loved it!
I'm not making a judgement here. Simply reporting what I witnessed.

This is your local reporter, Bobser, for 'South Today' saying; "Be careful out there".


Hi Bobser:

It sounds like a nighclub or bar act. When I made that comment my reference was for the real work where the money is. Corporate, Schools, Fairs and fundraisers. If you do that humiliation stuff there you will find yourself only able to find work in the bars and to me that would be a real drag. Now I'm not saying there is anything wrong with working bars, its just not where I want my career to lead me.

Once you start doing that R and X rated material and the word gets around, those markets I mentioned above won't be touching you with a ten foot pole. Its a positioning thing.

Martin Smile
Martin Blakley, CSH, DASH, CMSA
http://www.thehypnoguy.com/HYPNORESOURCES
http://www.docgrayson.com/
How To Sell Anything Online
http://tub.bz/?r=1z
Copyright to my own words retained 100%.
nic
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There is a arguement put forward about stage hypnotism in pubs and clubs when people are made to perform weird and strange acts that hypnosis doe not occur. This I belie=ieve to be the case in some situations and some people are willing to perform have there moment as the star and then say they remember nothing.

The more (I would say) professional act uses hypnosis and the depth of the trance is irrellevent as long as the suggestion is acted upon. I would ask is the subject of how deep the state is something that we need to worry about rather that we should look at producing a state that is necessary to produce your act.

I know of Hypnotists that are successfull but are not bothered if they can or do hypnotise a person. I don't think I could work with that I would feel as much of a fraud as the fraudulent psychic. I would rather have a professional act
Nic

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RickSilmser
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The state of "hypnosis" as we know it...does not exist. All it is...an altered state of concentration that allows you to afix your mind onto a certain given subject without interuption.

"Hypno", as you may know, is a Greek word meaning "sleep"...at no time are any of these people sleeping.

~Rick~
nic
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I agree completley with you Rick. There is no sleep involved and the label HYPNOSIS is one that was given when there was even less understanding than there is now and it has stuck as a name.

Hypnosis is and altered state of concentration and relaxation. So is it that hypnosis does exist, but there is a lot of misunderstanding about what it is?
Nic

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hkwiles
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Partizan..

Yeah but, No but, Yeah but..no but.


Come on Partizan own up, " are you the only one in the village?"


Howard
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But..i'm a lady, I do lady's things like needle point...
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