The animations look amazing to me.Looks good Peter!

Gary and harishjose,

I totally agree with you about what you said about the cards not fitting in at all.

But that doesn't render the Relic a bad or unusable product. By doing the 'out-of-place' card trick, Peter has demonstrated some of the many uses of his newest creation.

You could force something else like maybe tarot cards or SOMETHING. You don't HAVE to use playing cards, heck I WOULDN'T and I'm a card worker!

The Relic is just a tool and a very nice one in that!

Another thing I wouldn't do is the sunglasses, when that came on it really showed a bit on the mechanics of the illusion. I think it'll be great with old photographs or pentagrams or one of those self lighting pack of matches so while they're moving they light up!

Good job Peter!

Take care guys,

Logan

Yeah , I know that some of you , are afraid to use boxes and props , but with some creativity , this can be turned into a masterpiece

I agree with the point that its not for everyone . but for the bizarrist , its an excelent companion ,

for the guy complaining that its too box like , why not invent a story about finding the box in the attic when you moved into a new home . or it has been contructed from furniture taken out of a haunted house .

as for the guy complaining about the bycyle deck , substiute it for a pack of tarots

unfortunatly peter some of these guys are too lazy to come up with their own presentation , they just expect to have everything laid out before them on a silver platter . { shame on you guys }

The objects bounce up and down on the same spot...looks like i******** t***** to me and nothing more.

Thanks for the support guys! This is probably one of my favourite things that have come out of our shop.

Harv, actually the pen scrolls along as it writes. Depending on the object you use and how you program the actions will all change how the object moves, where is bounces, floats, lands etc. You actually have complete control over the animations thanks to Sean Bogunia, and his wonderful micro chips.

Hi Peter...I can only go by what I saw in the demo vid and most of the objects inside the glass container looked like they were bouncing up and down. Can the objects move around inside the container(from side to side, float around) or do they have to be positioned in the center?

Hey Harv, understood your previous comments so I was just clarifying. Again it all depends on the objects and how much room they take up in the box but yes you can have them animate in different positions in the box, absolutely! I think however the effect is better with the objects in the center which is why we went with that look. Also they don't have to bounce, you can have them levitate up slowly and hang in mid air for as long as you like, or you could have them thrash around violenty, etc. Having the objects in the center to me though, dispels any stings, threads or wires etc. along with the fact that it is in sealed glass container, that can be eximained. From all the lay people that we have performed this for, non of which had any clue of the method.

P.

Have you ever heard of IT? You don't need a box and a fat wallet to create an illusion far more memorable than this. Oh and guess what? The audience will give you credit...not your cool box.

Magic w/hart let see your effect, and we can have some layment compare. I would be interested in the results.

There are countless animation effects, think about it. There is to much apparatus for what you are trying to accomplish. If you show your effect to a layperson they will like it because of the animation aspect. But what do they have to compare to? A layperson will no doubt know that the box did the magic. I hear this all the time from laypeople when I am working. They comment on how much more they like the magic because it happens in their hands, inches in front of their face without the use of "the boxes". As I said above, I am not a box pusher, and this falls in to that realm IMHO. I don't care what presentation you use, lay people are not stupid.

It is all about presentation and story you use. But everyone is entitled to there opinion. I think this illusion will work for some and not for others. I find that peter has built a amazing illusion/prop that can be used for many different things. Leave it up to your imagination and you will see. Don't be close minded.

Michael

Magic w/hart wrote: "There are countless animation effects, think about it. There is to much apparatus for what you are trying to accomplish. If you show your effect to a layperson they will like it because of the animation aspect. But what do they have to compare to? A layperson will no doubt know that the box did the magic. I hear this all the time from laypeople when I am working. They comment on how much more they like the magic because it happens in their hands, inches in front of their face without the use of "the boxes". As I said above, I am not a box pusher, and this falls in to that realm IMHO. I don't care what presentation you use, lay people are not stupid."

I don't have to think about it I have been in magic for over 20 years. But your statement was saying that you can accomplish the same impact with any IT effect, and I disagree, and here is why:

There is no conection between the object in the performer, unlike most IT effects. And the problem doing an IT effect is that when the performer shakes so does the object, not very magical if you ask me. I have seen many magicians perform IT effects this way. You don't get this problem with Relic, and also the fact that it is sealed and isolated in a clear glass box, it is much more impactful. Take David Copperfield's dancing Tie routine, having the tie animate inside the glass box definately made the effect much much more effective and I talking from a layman's point of view. Also when performing IT effects you don't have ability or the cotrol you do over an ofject without moving some part of your body or your hands around the object etc, and in most cases being close to the object. With relic you have complete control, and you can even sit in your audience and control the animations, and that makes a very big difference IMHO.

You also mention how spectors like magic better when it done in their hands. I suppose that is a matter of opinion, and widely depends on the act, but this can be a close up effect or a stage effect, either way it can still happen right in front of them and with their borrowed object if you prefer.

"If you show your effect to a layperson they will like it because of the animation aspect."

Well there you go.

"I don't care what presentation you use, lay people are not stupid."

Who said they were stupid?

By dispelling the use of threads and wind etc to animate an object I am in no way saying my audience is stupid, quite the contrary which is why Relic is so impactful with laymen.

Magic w/hart you are definately entitled to your opinion and nothing I say may change your mind. I just wanted you to understand my point of view and a point of view from someone who actually has worked with the prop. And in my experience this is much more well recieved than most IT effects. I have actually had people cry after seeing this thinking their reletive was actually in the room with them. It can be a very emotional peice, and I had no idea the impact this illusion really has on people, which is why we put a warning in our advertisement. I since stress to people that is just an illusion.

We had originally built 6 of these units and they are now all sold. A 2week turn around time is now in effect. Thanks to Hocus Pocus and all who have purchased this, you will love it.

Peter.

I understand what you are saying Peter. I guess this is definitely something that will work for some and not for others. However, I do believe that no matter how you present this the audience will know that the box is the one making the magic happen. It is the same with the boxes used in larger stage illusions, people know that in some way they are responsible for the illusion. That or every single lay person that I have ever talked to is really smart. Now that I think about, even I knew that when I was a little kid, years before I got into magic. Just my humble opinion. Oh yeah, don't assume that thread work is shaky just because you or the people you have seen use it had problems. We all know it can destroy a lay audience if done correctly, there is this thing called practice. BTW, why don't you just animate some spirit slates? I can think of 2 methods off the top of my head. Peter wrote,"I have actually had people cry thinking their relative was in the room". So Peter, did they think their relative came back from the dead to divine the name of their selected card?*lol* Must have been a another effect than the one you show on your site...

I understand that you are reassuring that the product is worth the money we pay. But some of us don't see it the way you see it. And if this is true, then I am sure among the spectators also, there will be many (or a small number) who think this is just another science project. This is what I have been trying to say. This is a good visual project, but a magic illusion -- I doubt it.

Magic w/Hart, actually is was a photograph of their deceased relative that began to move and answer questions. Anyway, assumming I don't practice IT effects, well now that wasn't very fair. At any rate we can safely agree to disagree. Thanks for the discussion. And I would love to see your thread work, perhaps you can share a video as I asked before.

Jose wrote: "I understand that you are reassuring that the product is worth the money we pay."

Im not trying to reassure you at all since you are not buying it. I was merely pointing out my point of view in regards to Magic w/hart. Sorry if that was misunderstood. Like I said everyone is entitled to there own opinion. If you say that some who see this as a science project(don't quite understand this or see how this is possible, but no need to explain) that others will also see it as magic.

Thank you.

Peter.

[quote]On 2005-02-08 18:15, Peter Loughran wrote:
Magic w/Hart, actually is was a photograph of their deceased relative that began to move and answer questions. Anyway, assumming I don't practice IT effects, well now that wasn't very fair. At any rate we can safely agree to disagree. Thanks for the discussion. And I would love to see your thread work, perhaps you can share a video as I asked before.

Peter, I never said anything about you not practicing. In your post above you say that shaking is a problem w/ IT and I am saying that this is a problem that can be remedied by good old fashioned practice. Not by purchasing your latest effect. I will say what I have said again, any lay person will assume that this box is what makes the magic happen, and their assumption will be correct. I don't care if you are halfway across the room, there is still a box, my bad, two boxes that is holding the object in question. Peter, I have no doubt that you are a great thinker. Some of your effects look wonderful. However, in this case I believe you are jaded. Maybe you are thinking like a magician, I don't know, I'm not a mentalist! This is cool to magicians because it will fool us, but we still know that the secret is in the box. Lay people don't know about IT(when used correctly) so lets put this all in perspective. From a lay person's point of view would it be cooler for the magician to have to put the object in question into a box and then manipulate it through this medium or would it be more magical to have no medium at all? Think of it this way wouldn't it be much more believable if you just cut the girl in half without the use of a box? Sure, it would be messy, but believable!

Im trying to understand you, I really am.

But basically you have told me that doing an open IT effect is more believable to an audience, yet you also told that you don't think laymen are stupid, correct me if Im wrong here, yet if you think that an audience is going to believe that you and a floating bill etc, is actually real and not an illusion or trick, than I think it is you who are under estimating your audience.

I have also gathered from the information you have told me here is that you don't like any kind of prop? Right? There is nothing wrong with that, that's just the impression I get. If so I know litterly thousands of magicians who use magical looking props in their show every day, including some of the worlds most successful magicians such as Copperfield, it is obviously a form of magic that is very entertaining to an audience of lay people, proven as his magic is enjoyed by millions of people all over the world. And that is who my target audience is also. How come no one comes on here and starts trashing a square circle or a die box, etc. Does that mean one of Chance wolf's amazing products are not going to be enjoyed because they look like a magical prop? C'mon now. Does that mean those tricks are no good too and an audience is not going to enjoy them? Im all very confused by some of your comments. No need to explain as Im sure you will just repeat what you have already told me.

As for sawing a girl in half without a box, your right it would be messy and would not make for very good entertainment, and isn't that we all are, actors and entertainers?

And again would love to see you perform so IT work, can you please share a video with us? Yes, no?
P.

Magic w/Hart,

I can see where you're coming from, the fact that the box looks 'fishy' but there are ways to get around it.

This is what seperates a good performer with a bad one (I am not pointing any fingers here, just explaining).

For example, you're doing a seance routine and you go along the lines of,

"Spirits would rather manifest themselves with items that they're familiar with like this photograph of the deceased here."

Show the photo around.

Then you place it in the box and say, "I'm going to isolate it in this box, so that you know there is nothing connected to the photo or there is no wind blowing or any fishy business"

Continue with routine...

Now, by doing this the audience understands why the box is there, and in a way, will insist that it be placed in the box.

Alternitavly, you could attach IT to it and animate it a bit before putting it into the box to prove that nothing is attached to it, etc.

Depending on how you use your props will determine how your audience takes it in. We as performers have to be able to control our audiences path of thoughts - which is why we have convincers and certain subtleties in our art which masks the real work and at the same time throws them in the wrong direction.

If you come out on stage with the box, grab a photo and chuck it in and it animates...OF COURSE the spectators suspect the box and think it is doing the magic, WHO WOULDN'T?

Structure your routine and add reasons for the actions you do, say the box is clear so everyone can see thru it and state that it will isolate the object from any external contact. Hand the box for examination, then continue.

Spectators would STILL suspect the box...BUT, it will dwindle because they examined it and know that its purpose there is for isolation of the object..then the box doesn't become an object fo scrutiny anymore.

Spectators will ALWAYS suspect anything we use...always...nothing we can do about that other than direct their path of thinking and throw them in the wrong direction.

We are magicians and that's what we do.

We obviously have a different opinion on this subject and that is fine. Those who want to purchase this apparatus, explain what it is , then put a pen inside a box on top of another box to see it jiggle around that is their business. I won't talk about this w/ you anymore because you are biased, this is your effect. Anyone else who would like to comment on what me and Peter WERE talking about or have this product I would love to hear what you have to say. Talk to you all tomorrow, got to get to the restaurant by 6:00 pm Pacific Time. Have a good night.

Oh Peter, as far as your obsession w/ seeing my thread work. Well, the only computer I have access to is here at my work. The Café is the furthest I go as far as pleasure use. Furthermore, I am not computer savvy and don't even know how to post video. I have a promotional DVD coming out in a couple months and maybe I can send you one if you are still hung up on viewing my material.

Don't be upset, I was just breaking down what you said in your earlier posts. I hope I didn't offend you, sincerely.

I am biased becasue I have performed both IT and the Relic and as I mentioned before trough my experience the relic is more impactful. Don't knock something you haven't tired, that's all Im saying. I find people sometimes too critical over something they have never tried.

I wasn't obssesed with seeing your thread work, I just thought it would help prove your point or mine. And yes let me know when you can show it to us.

Best,

Peter.