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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Restricted Television Rights (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Maaaagic!
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A few books and DVD's I've bought within the last year have included a statement that television performance rights have been reserved. Is this fair?
J ack Galloway
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Why not? I
t has to do with distibution and the dilution of an effect.
Who wants to use something in their act if it has been on a Blain or Copperfeild show.

Cheers

JAck
Ken Dyne
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If you were wanting to perform on television, you could simply contact the creator. The statement might be form the publisher, management company or another outside source. It may be worth a try? It may also be ther ejust to put people off and make them go out of their way to request permission, which many wont, thus keeping the effect "purer".

Best,
Kennedy
MR GOLDEN BALLS 2.0: https://mentalunderground.com/product/mr-golden-balls-2-0/" target="_blank"> https://mentalunderground.com/product/passed-out-deck/

BAIRN: Named 'Best Mentalism Product Of 2014 by Marketplace of the Mind is my collection of more than 40 mentalism routines in a beautiful paperback book: http://www.mentalunderground.com/product/bairn
salsa_dancer
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Quote:
On 2005-02-09 20:14, Maaaagic! wrote:
A few books and DVD's I've bought within the last year have included a statement that television performance rights have been reserved. Is this fair?


I guess that has buggered up your upcoming TV series then.
Lord Of The Horses
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Quote:
On 2005-02-10 19:22, salsa_dancer wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-02-09 20:14, Maaaagic! wrote:
A few books and DVD's I've bought within the last year have included a statement that television performance rights have been reserved. Is this fair?

I guess that has buggered up your upcoming TV series then.

:lol:
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
Daegs
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It is completly "fair".

Whoever created it can sell you the rights however he wants. It is his/her effect and they can license it however they want.



It is also pretty darn hard to enforce....

Use the effect on the television, you'll probably get sued but it won't hold up in court.... this type of thing really can't be legally enforced unless it is a large constructed illusion that there are patented plans for.
dreidy
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Actually, it's not that hard to enforce, provided that the purchaser is informed of the restriction prior to purchasing the illusion or effect. Any purchase is a contract and if a condition of the contract is that the illusion or effect not be performed on television, and you enter into the contract knowing that, then breach of that condition is a pretty simple case to prove.

Damages could be quite substantial particularly if another performer has paid for exclusive television rights (e.g. Blaine and the resealed soda can illusion) and you'll probably get stuck with the damages and costs as most television contracts include indemnity clauses protecting the tv station from those sorts of law suits.
Ken Dyne
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Salsa, you've doen it again, cheers...i'll go and cry now...
MR GOLDEN BALLS 2.0: https://mentalunderground.com/product/mr-golden-balls-2-0/" target="_blank"> https://mentalunderground.com/product/passed-out-deck/

BAIRN: Named 'Best Mentalism Product Of 2014 by Marketplace of the Mind is my collection of more than 40 mentalism routines in a beautiful paperback book: http://www.mentalunderground.com/product/bairn
ThePartyMagician
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Quote:
On 2005-02-09 20:14, Maaaagic! wrote:
A few books and DVD's I've bought within the last year have included a statement that television performance rights have been reserved. Is this fair?


It depends if you knew about this before you purchased the effect. Was it advertised as having reserved performing rights?

If not...then you could argue that IF you had known this, you wouldn't have invested in the product in the first place.

No easy answer on this one...

Kind regards
Mike
Lee Davies
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Without getting into too much legal detail and stating cases etc…

It may be different under Australian laws, but in the U.K you cannot make up your own clauses for contract’s that have no legal precedence; otherwise it’s not worth the paper it’s written on.

For example if I sold an item/routine on ebay (or directly) and stated you cannot sell this item on or perform this because of x then this in the eye’s of U.K law would not stand because it would contradict existing consumer rights and legal precedence. The only way one could protect an item or performance is by using existing laws and precedence. It a nutshell one cannot make up one’s rules.

Also, you can only sue for damages loss (i.e. personal financial loss). Therefore, presenting the effect or item on television would not amount to anything because it would not result in loss of sales to the author. Plus, to add to further complication if you started to sell your own routines and item’s (just once), it becomes common knowledge under U.K law. This would mean that the original author has even less of a grip on the item or routine (then becomes a copyright issue yada, yada…).

This debate could take up a lot of space because different countries have different law systems and different precedence and cases. It’s all messy and has a lot of grey areas. Just to throw in the mix, I know that Paul Daniels lost out to another performer using his electric chair act - I don’t even think it reach the courts i.e. it was thrown out.

My thoughts are, if the author asks politely not to use the routine/item for television that we should ethically respect his wish, but the fact must be highlighted before you purchase the item - under U.K law, not disclosing this fact would be against our Trading Standards law!

Regards

My post wasn't an invite to start legal wrangles and technicalities with me – I much prefer Salsa’s post.

This debate is for the (money grabbing and blood sucking) solicitors.

Regards
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Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand...
bitterman
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With all that in mind: I was thinking about doing a weekly seg. on a local TV show featuring a bit of mentalism. Bang for your buck, which effect would you use?
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Osiris
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Some years ago when we sold SHADOW VISION to Sigfred & Roy they paid a bit extra in order to have exclusivity. The agreement was very simple, no one could perform SV within southern Nevada for (if I recall correctly) a 2 year period. Too, S&R had North American video/broadcast rights for a period of 5 years (if my recollection is correct, that was the deal). HOWEVER, Mark Wilson purchased SV and performed it on Tv... in Japan. This did not breach the S&R deal but at the same time, the MW footage would have to edit out the SV routine if aired in the U.S. during said time period.

Confused?

In the past two-decades or so the legal parameters around magic, creative rights, etc. has become a very intrigal and dangerous cob-web. On one level the legal activities have come into being so as to protect the designers who, for centuries, were getting cut out of the loop and forgotten. People were making millions of dollars using their ideas, but not "remembering" where they got this or that from.

Slowly, starting about a century or so ago, credit started becoming an important factor -- a way to document and protect (as well as preserve) magic technology. This came by way of books, manuscripts and even some early film footage. It wasn't until the advent of the Home Computer and of course the Internet, that the need for protecting one's creativity and contributions became paramount. Add to this the adventures of my old buddy Valentino and his successors that felt it perfectly ok to go onto to national Tv and apparently tip the works on things (bare in mind a lot of what Val tipped and even some of the others, is far from the truth on things... that's another issue, but please learn the facts.)

Today, just so a designer can protect his/her contributions and, all going well, earn a bit of compensation for their efforts, a tremendous amount of legal meandering is required. When it comes to Broadcast rights, there is a second reason for the clause -- to prevent a poor demonstration of an otherwise prime piece. Too, this clause helps guard against public saturation. Let me explain that latter factor...

If S&R for an example, featured SV in their Tv special as originally planned, they wouldn't want Harry Blackstone or some other named performer to present it two weeks or even six months later and confuse the public. A confusion that takes place because of association e.g. "I saw this guy do this..." When they describe the routine and the fact that it was on Tv then those "in the know" know that it was S&R the person saw and not Davido the Ego or some other shmuck with a big bank account, who hadn't "earned" the right for such an advantage.

Sounds cruel, manipulative, potentially exploitive don't it?

To a limited degree you may be right. The bottom line however, is that these kind of restrictions must be set into place in today's world if we are going to preserve and protect our craft from the imbasils (sp) that seek to do nothing other than abuse it.

That's my experience and my two-cents on the topic.
Mark Timon
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Hi Maaaagic!

Daegs is right, the creator and publisher has the right to protect his creations and include any statements they desire but there is no way you can be sued because it's almost impossible to prove that you've used the same method and there's no way they can prove that you have purchased the product, and more... you might come up with the same idea as other person..

Anyway is better to ask for permission!!

Regards
Ola
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I know this is an old thread but it is relevant to a current issue of mine. (And I did post it in a different forum before I found this thread.)

It deals with TV PERFORMANCE RIGHTS.

I have just bought the Marc Spelmann dvd set for close to US$200 and the first thing that greets you is a screen telling you that you are not allowed to perform these effects on TV.

HANG ON!

I'm a professional entertainer who do appear on TV occassionally and I've paid top dollars for these routines and now I'm told I can't use them in one aspect of my work. I don't think this is fair.
Restricted performance rights are not mentioned in the advertising and as such what options do I have.
I'm not sure what the solution is but I do feel cheated as several routines will go straight into my repertoir.

I could:

1) Perform them anyway
2) Ask for permission to use the routines I have in mind. (But why should I?)
3) Ask for a refund as they do not fulfill my requirements.

I have no problem with this if it is advertised so you know prior to purchase.

What are your thoughts.

Cheers

Ola
You laugh because I'm different. I laugh because you are all the same...
jimtron
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Ola:

As has been pointed out, just because the restriction is on the video, doesn't mean it's actually enforceable. You could consult with an attorney to get an opinion.

On the other hand, it doesn't necessarily sound unreasonable to me for Spelman to make this restriction. If he wants to sell his secrets and allow theatrical performances but not TV, what's wrong with that (other than it may not be legally enforceable)? Maybe he would allow a TV performance for an additonal fee. Like a recording artist would expect more money if their song was played in a TV show as compared to the radio. And a writer would expect more money if her script was used on TV, compared to in a local play.

In my opinion asking for a refund would not be unreasonable, if you said you were looking for material for TV, and you promised not to perform the effects (anywhere). But you added some to your repertoire, so why do you need a refund? As far as the video not being advertised with the TV restriction; I don't think this issue comes up too often with retail effects and videos.

Quote:
2) Ask for permission to use the routines I have in mind. (But why should I?)

Out of respect for the creator of the effect? To avoid being sued?
edh
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I would ask for refund. Clearly what you wanted out of this product is not what this product was intended for. However this limitation was not in the adverstisement. You are due a refund, IMHO.

edh
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squando
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Get a refund, I agree.
Frank
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Quote:
On 2005-11-24 04:56, jimtron wrote:

In my opinion asking for a refund would not be unreasonable, if you said you were looking for material for TV, and you promised not to perform the effects (anywhere). But you added some to your repertoire, so why do you need a refund?
That's an old,old catch. Whether you want to go on and perform those effects you chose from videos anyway or you don't, the point is another one:Anyone who decide to enter in a contract agreement MUST KNOW BEFOREHAND he/she is doing so. Otherwise the contract is nihil.
Do not matter what people say to you, if you don't know of restriction rights until you have bought the thing, then it's impossible to enforce those rights because it's like putting a signature on a contract before the contract has been fully written up.
Don't know about your local laws specifically, yet I think it would be very hard if not IMPOSSIBLE for Spelmann to enforce that agreement IF you did NOT KNOW you were officially "signing" it before buying his tapes. You cannot express agreement - or for that matter, disagreement - if you don't know you are asked for it BEFORE THE SALE.
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