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Grandillusionsmagic
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Are there any good plans to make a base that looks rather thin? I think it might be called a hippo base/table but I am not sure.
thank you for your help.
Grand Illusions

ps I am asking because I need a new one.
Magically,
GI
www.boisemagic.com
Michael Messing
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I'm not sure what you're referring to as a "hippo base/table" but Rand Woodbury put out a book called "The Base Book." This book describes a bunch of different types of bases but does not give dimensions. It just shows illustrations of the different bases, how they are used and how to make them more deceptive. I'm not sure the book is still in print.

The information in "The Base Book" is pulled from Rand's other books: "Illusion Works" . There were three volumes.

Michael
Darmoe
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O.k. It all depends upon your needs, performance arena, the effect planned for said device, etc.

NOT ALL BASES & LOADERS ARE CREATED EQUAL!

The H&W Table a.k.a. Creative Illusions Multi-Purpose base CANNOT be used in the round {NOTE: called an H&W Table because it was cultivated via two seperate sources under differing circumstances by Franz Harrary (first) followed by Ken Whitaker. Creations were independent of one another and yet details are almost exactly the same... no common thread.} This table will give you a flat top and roughly a 2" frontal profile and seriously large load chamber.

When it comes to more conventional "In-The-Round" type base units we must again consider what the loader will be used for, where, audience perspective, etc. Some bases appear very thin if seen "straight on" in profile; some seem thinner when sat low to the stage while others (like the Table above) work better via elevation.

Are you going to do a direct load or a Zimmerman load? (Where's the heat?)

Again, performance setting/conditions are important... are you working out of doors most of the time or in a more theatrical or even Cabaret setting?

Again, these are issues that must be weighed if you want the very best unit for optimum advantage on your illusion system.

One last note... YOU DON'T HAVE TO SOCK A FORTUNE INTO A BASE.

One of the best, most deceptive Asrah Couch units I've ever seen belongs to Kirby Vanbirch. It's an old Aboott table with a new facade that delivers a unit that looks less than 2" thick (even when you're standing next to it... well, it's almost that good...)

I just wanted to extend some important food for thought on this issue. Getting a new base means you are in the position to improve upon something and make it better. Sometimes that means creating an alternate method for doing an effect too... such as Step Loader systems -- there's the C.I. See Thru as well as some of the more traditional versions. I'm also aware of a new See-Thru system that employs a "new" (sort-of) slant on technology. Can't say more but save your penny's if you like cutting edge illusion systems. These things are sweet!

Anywho, just some food for thought. Little things many fail to consider when faced with this kind of opportunity.

In regards to your question however, Rand Woodbury and the Stinemeyer books are probably the better "public accessible" resources as are the Paul Osborne books. Your best bet is to study as many base designs in use on other people's equipment... this is how the "big guys" learn to build better, thinner, more impossible units.

One last hint... if you are building this yourself, find someone that can break metal for you... aluminum sheet is stronger, requires less physical space than wood, can be easily sound-proofed, and will last much longer. There is also a "fiberglass" method that's diabolical. I've seen it used in one prop that came from the BLACKSTONE (Sr.) show on the table to his Double X-Ray Box illusion.

Have fun!
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
reedrc
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Ok the equation is easy........ Do whatever you can to make 9 or 10 inches look like 2 or three.....


Good luck.....

P.S. As usual, Darmoe makes some great points...
Another suggestion is to only make illusions you can do in the round when it comes to bevel-bases. At this point in the game if you can't slap a ring of people around it or inspect it, it's redundant and should not be built. We need to take magic to the next step... it's every designers responsibility to do so................


~R.
Kind Regards

Ryan C. Reed
Founder, Illusion Entertainment

designer, director, theatrical consultant, digital wizard, magic impresario, wonder aficionado, Illusioneer & dream architect.

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Darmoe
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O.k. I'll agree in part with where you're coming from here.

I personally do not think every illusion requires a base that holds a load or other such utility. In fact, I loathe the sense of co-dependency many "illusionists" have in doing such when there are so many alternative methods that, for the sake of the effect, are superior to a base.

Sometimes the "old" ways work better than
"convenient" technology and, in my experience far too many people (as in non-magicians) are wise to base and even step applications. Thus, it is time for us to second guess them (along with FOX) and give the audience something other than what they expect when and where possible.

AS A SIDE NOTE: If you have the advantage of working primarily theatrical dates, look into the Gerret Tube as well as the construction physics (optics) behind Dante's
"Barrel of Damaclese" illusion... this particular base design is uncanny and could allow some major advantages... unfortunately, the original base was destroyed about 15 years ago or so... I won't go into the gory details Smile
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
LeeAlex2002
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Well said Craig!

I have a new contract for the new season which includes 120 different appearances - all of which use no base whatsoever - a tough challenge it is going to be over the next 36 weeks - especially with no budget!!
Yours Magically,
Lee Alex

http://www.magic2wear.com
Darmoe
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Quote:
On 2002-09-22 16:54, LeeAlex2002 wrote:
Well said Craig!

I have a new contract for the new season which includes 120 different appearances - all of which use no base whatsoever - a tough challenge it is going to be over the next 36 weeks - especially with no budget!!


Ahh... Lee... the object of our work is to MAKE MONEY... doing that much work without a budget is how you end up like me... a well rounded and educated veteran of 35 years, broke and broken Smile

35 different productions should put at least $30k U.S. into your pocket somewhere along the line (+costs). Smile

Best of luck!
"I firmly believe that of all the Arts and Crafts of Mentalism, there is nothing more satisfying than one who is a first-class Reader. It is the ultimate in Mentalism..." - Tony Corinda * 13 Steps To Mentalism
reedrc
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Not saying thee are other ways to skin a cat....just speaning about bases in general.........
Kind Regards

Ryan C. Reed
Founder, Illusion Entertainment

designer, director, theatrical consultant, digital wizard, magic impresario, wonder aficionado, Illusioneer & dream architect.

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Saydean
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Gee, reedc and Darmoe you guys are a little overmy head with this base stuff. So what your saying is that people dont really appear from thin air? E-mail me you guys I want to bring you up to speed on whats going on.
Dutch
LeeAlex2002
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Ahh... Lee... the object of our work is to MAKE MONEY... doing that much work without a budget is how you end up like me... a well rounded and educated veteran of 35 years, broke and broken

35 different productions should put at least $30k U.S. into your pocket somewhere along the line (+costs).


Don't worry Craig - I have a seperate fee which I take monthly (which exceeds your quoted figure)whether the programme happens or not - ý made sure my contract was the first thing signed with the lawyers present!
It now also looks like we shall get a sponsor - so slowly the money is coming too!!
Yours Magically,
Lee Alex

http://www.magic2wear.com
Kendrix
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Trying to hide a load of 9 inches can be tough. (No pun intended) My assistant only requires 6- 7 inches of space. You have to make the base massive in width to look thin and hide 9 inches.
reedrc
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Um not really.......
Kind Regards

Ryan C. Reed
Founder, Illusion Entertainment

designer, director, theatrical consultant, digital wizard, magic impresario, wonder aficionado, Illusioneer & dream architect.

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mvmagic
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There has been a lot of good information on bases on this thread.

I tend to agree with Darmoe-there are other methods. Base or not, a lot depends on the application. Our most mystifying appearance illusion uses no base. In general, all it takes (in addition to the actual platform I appear on) a few dumb wheels, some ply,2by4´s and some cloth. And that wasn´t expensive either.

Do look into older, rarely used methods. There are some bits that you could definately use.

If you really want a base, go to Bill Smith or John Gaughan and have them build you. And don´t forget Reedrc-from what I have seen, his people can do one sweet deceptive unit (so Ryan, where´s my complimentary base..?)
Sent from my Typewriter
reedrc
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Thanks MV! We actually have released the new unit to clients only, please get ahold of me and I'll give you a sneek peak at our latest "skew" concept you and I were playing with. PM me on the IEI network and Well go from there. Public release is shortly, a few months or so. Heck right now we just want to finish the site.....you know how it is Smile


~R.
Kind Regards

Ryan C. Reed
Founder, Illusion Entertainment

designer, director, theatrical consultant, digital wizard, magic impresario, wonder aficionado, Illusioneer & dream architect.

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Blair Marshall
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Great base thread, so I thought I would revive it to go along with my question on taper bases.

Blair Marshall
"ShaZzam!"
sb
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When trying to visualize the base.. you should draw it out. You don't need fancy 3D software to visualize your base.

This way you see what looks thinner. Try adding a thicker black strip on the bottom. Does that make your starting thickness look thinner? Draw the prop wider (left to right) does this streatching out make it look thinner? Does making the table top area slant down help? Etc....

An easy way is to get some graph paper. Draw a simple picture of yourself - to scale - then draw the actual load space. From there expierament with different "thinning techniques" like the two things I mentioned earlier. And add in a simple line drawing or the illusion on top, and the legs... See how it all looks together.

And you know what.... if someone on here told you exactly how thick to make your base, or you went out and bought a base, you really would not learn about bases. When you draw it out, you wrap your mind around the problem. And eventually you will know and understand why this or that works or doesn't work. (kinda like the old saying about teaching a man to fish....)

scott brown
Swann101
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Interesting posts! I am busy building a long base where my assistant will be lying straight and not curled up, I have been working with Rand Woodbury's designs in past projects but this ne long base keeps me up at night, I don't now what design (stepped or stepped tapered combo etc.) I should use, Can't seem to make up my mind. Also I was thinking on 8", do you guys think that is to think for a "long base" I work with different assistants and dancers on different productions, they are generaly built quite small, so again should I try and go thiner that 8 inches. Also mostly all my illusion work is on stage and NOT outdoors or in daylight etc. Thank you, will appreciate any advice or suggestions!
Fabricem
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The best base ,is whit out base!!!!
Blair Marshall
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You can make a base that has "expansion" room as far as thickness.

You do not mention as to where the "base" is ie. on short legs - Mismade, on mid size - Crystal casket, on tall legs - thin sawing)

Blair Marshall
"ShaZzam!"
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