Research the symbolism on the US Dollar Bill if you want to connect with the average Joe/Josephine. There's even a book out on it. Very spooky that buck.

Doug

Didn't they just come out with a movie like that ? Kind of part Raiders of the Lost Ark, part Mummy's Tomb, with Nicholas Cage, I think ?

Paul hit it on the nose with the cite of the Texe Mars page. The man is perpetrates this kind of disinformation all the time. And he can be really good fuel for a presentation as he and his cohorts simply LOVE the "pagan conspiracy" nonsense. As a regional coordinator of the now-defunct Wiccan Information network (an international organization, run by a Canadian police constable), we were running into that kind of material all the time - Illuminati conspiracies to take over the world, multi-level Satanic conspiracies that kidnap people and induce multiple personality disorders (or, for the proper term Dissociative Identity Disorder) and the like.

And somehow, the idea of the satanists working from the same game plan as Amway and Shaklee just really is laughable - and good fodder for the Bizarrist's presentation mill, I would think!

Lee Darrow, C.H.

Daa... I thinks you need to do some research and get out of the Hollywood/Churchist perspectives on this.

Most folks that are EDUCATED to any level, know that the Pentagram/Pentacle is one of the oldest religious symbols known to modern man. Anyone that's involved with Bizarre Magick/Mentalism SHOULD be aware of its valid meanings and perhaps, a hint of its history.

Well into the latter half of the mid 5th century for an example, the Pentagram was intentionally carved into the soles of one's sandles (that is, if you were Christian and/or of the Druidic faith... I'll explain more on that shortly). The idea was to spread blessings wherever you travelled. Too, during this same period the early Christians frequently used the Pentagram (especially the Gnostics) applying to it the very same meaning it's always known e.g. "Mankind looking up to the cosmos for guidance, wisdom and protection" (point up). With the point down the original meaning was that of self-introspection and the challenge of "knowing thyself" for the sake of spiritual clarity and advancement. Thanks to the adaption (and ***isation) by LeVey in the early 50s and since, Hollywood & Church based misrepresentation, the inverted Pentagram has become synonamous with Satanism and degredation (which is far from what true Satanism is all about, btw...)

As one that has worked in Macabre styled magic, mentalism and bizarre performance for most of the past three decades, I've always felt it my obligation to EDUCATE my audiences as to the truth about such things and the history of our world that rarely gets told (the side of those defeated by the powers that be). Then again, for personal reasons I do love to paint a most tainted portrait of "The Church" within my programs, allowing factual history and those nasty little truths "they" don't want known, to serve as the backdrop to my shenanigans (someone needs to call a spade a spade and get folks to think...)

A great number of those claiming to be "Bizarrists" and even a growing score of those dabbling in Mentalism admit to being of the Pagan persuasion or, at minimum, curious researchers of esoteric trivia (a.k.a. Agnostics). For us, I feel it is imperitive (sp) to bring about a sense of enlightenment and solid intellect as part of our performance as well as our printed marketing materials. For an example, the orignal poster in this thread referred to "Warlocks"... a Hollywood contrivance that never really existed in times gone by (at least, not until Samantha Stevens and her mother Endora made it a household term in the late 60s/early 70s -- "Bewitched"). A male "Witch" is just that, there is no alternate term folks!

Oh! Nearly forgot... that connection between the early Christians and the Druids...

Shortly after the whole "Passion" era the followers of Jesus found themselves hunted and heavily persecuted. Especially those that clung to the teachings of the Apostles vs. those that embraced the "abridged" ideas spewing forth from Paul's mouth. This persecuted sect being forced to flee their lands and seek refuge to the north e.g. in the lands of Germany, France and the UK where, it just so happens, the Druid culture was most formidable. Ironically, it was also something somewhat familiar to these converted Jewish and even Gentile refugees.

Why? You ask.

According to most tales the Druid culture was founded by the Son & Daughter of Noah who came to Briton shortly after the flood and practiced many of the more esoteric rites associated with Judism (including inner-secrets that parallel the Kabala). This sense of familiarity made the early followers of Christ feel comfortable and able to trust the Druids... that is, until Patrick comes along and decides to betray that trust via an act of extreme genocide... but, that's another story...

Pardon the lecture but I do so loathe it when things are misrepresented.

[quote]On 2005-02-17 11:03, Osiris wrote:


Oh Really?! Then let's all HAIL the power of television. ( http://www.paranormality.com/warlock.shtml has some info on this for any interested).

Interesting info... but, as a very old Pagan I can assure you, most within the craft that have more than a few miles on their bisom, negate the term. Then again, if you want to get picky about such things, the term "WICCA" in it's original application was comparable to calling a black man by the "N" term or gay people by the "F" or "Q" slangs... so much for it meaning "way of the wise" (which applies more towards the Wise-ards of old vs. the healthlander pagans).

Semantics and the evolution of language, the meaning of words, etc. is a very interesting thing. If you read "The Emaculate Deception" you'll find a plethora of legit definitions for the term "Virgin", only one of which sustains the more recent assumption.

With all due respect to the learned Osiris here, I stronly suspect that most in our culture today have enough trouble with our newspeak and the contemporary double-think to take much interest in preserving the integrity of uncommon words.

We live comfortably confusing ethos and correctness. Most here would likely have trouble distinguishing right, correct and true from appropriate. Where basic dictionary skills have failed, the nuances of textual studies and semiotics are lost. We may as well just flash icons and wait for official newspeak.

I'm going to pass on any mention of the within-group versus outside-group usage of words currently appropriated by self identified communities.

Well, getting back to the basic question, my take on this is that there is no real set of terminology for the occult arts that the majority will completely agree on. The real question then becomes how does this apply to one's audiences and how can we frame the terms in a way so that the audience has a better grasp of what we are referring to?

For me, it all boils down to tow literary techniques - context and exposition. By creating a context in which the terms become relevant to the audience-hooking them into the story line, presentation or actions we are going to perform (or as we perform them), we create a connection with that audience that can be the highway to some very strong emotional responses. By using exposition properly, we can define the context abd the terms so that the audience is on the same page we are, from a script standpoint.

So, for me, at least, the question is not about the fraternity of the bizarre to which we belong, but about the audience and how we relate to them and how we use the terms we use and the manner in which they should be understood by those "outside the circle."

Your mileage may vary, obviously.

Lee Darrow, C.H.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR THAT... I've been laughing for the past ten minutes! You're awesome!

Lee... I think you have hit the nail on the head with the aforementioned.

Don't you just love it when great minds come together and find common ground?

>The pentagram has many signifcant historical notations but its origins do not stem from satanisim... it originates in a time before satan was considered a spiritual influence or even named. At one point it symbolized the 5 wounds of christ.... at one point yes the "goat or horned god" whos icon was eventually adopted into pagan and satanistic practices... It is also found on the top of many christmas trees... something to think about huh?<

To be very honest with you the "Baphomet" was the sigil of John The Baptist!

>As to the broken cross, look to the peace symbol, inverted and broken... powerful symbology... unfortunately my education differs from yours int he history fo the swastika. It was not a broken cross, it was originaly a Hindu symbol for good luck and fortune until perverted by the Nazi party (strong believers in magick) to instil fear. <

Again, the swastika was also a Nordic & ancient Chinese symbol, it was like an early ying-yang when viewed circling to the right, it was a positive symbol, when viewed going in the left direction is represented a negitive symbol, (it may also represent the sun?). But Hitler took the positive swastika symbol (right direction) and made it evil....he just totally misrepresented the positive & powerful aspects the symbol once held!

> you'll find a plethora of legit definitions for the term "Virgin", only one of which sustains the more recent assumption. <

that's true!.......being a virgin actually used to mean- "A sexcually independant woman"! Not one who had never had it before.

And one more thing.....early christians depicted Mary & Jesus as Black! So as far as I'm conserened with all the reaserch I've found regarding "Black Madonna Cults" etc......i think it's fair to say in my opinion......Jesus & Mary are an evolution of the egyptian goddess Isis & her son Horus! (thats just my opinion!)

The Krossbearer

For an example, the orignal poster in this thread referred to "Warlocks"... a Hollywood contrivance that never really existed in times gone by (at least, not until Samantha Stevens and her mother Endora made it a household term in the late 60s/early 70s -- "Bewitched"). A male "Witch" is just that, there is no alternate term folks!
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It got me curious - so here is some Warlock word origin research


war•lock P Pronunciation Key (wôr l k )
n.
A male witch, sorcerer, wizard, or demon.


[Middle English warloghe, from Old English w rloga, oath-breaker : w r, pledge; see w r -o- in Indo-European Roots + -loga, liar (from l ogan, to lie. See leugh- in Indo-European Roots).]


warlock
n : a male witch or demon
The term Warlock originally meant an oath breaker, or traitor. In approximately 1460 it was equated with the word witch. It was applied equally to both female as well as male witches, and there seems to be no historical justification for using the word Warlock to specifically designate a male witch. I believe that it is now only the Hollywood movie makers who still use the term in this way.

The word may have originated during the 14th century, in Scotland. The true meaning of the word, warlock, is considered to be someone who practices the Black Arts, or devil worship, to be more accurate, hence the term "oath breaker" as in blaspheming against the Judaeo-Christian God. The idea behind it lies strictly in the Christian mentality, where anything non-Christian is looked at as being wicked, and thus, the idea of a warlock came into this mind frame.

The word Warlock is a Scottish word meaning "oath breaker", and became a term designating a male Witch during the "burning times". A Male Witch is simply that.

Enigma I have found limited information on the Old and Middle English etymology of this word, but I have been told that there is also a (perhaps older) Norse origin of the word. Apparently (?) in this origin, the word does not mean "oath breaker". I would appreciate any help on this, English, Norse or otherwise. I will need source references, as they will be required for footnoting. Thanks in advance for any and all help.
AdSumADS Webster's

Lewis Joplin II Here's all I could find.
WARLOCK -- "n. wizard, male witch. Before 1400 'warlag,' 'warlau,' 'warlo'; developed from Old English 'waerloga' (before 900) demon, traitor, scoundrel, ***ed soul, monster; originally, oathbreaker ('waer' covenant, related to 'waer' true + 'loga,' agent noun related to 'leoggan,' to speak falsely, LIE1). The modern spelling warlock is Scottish, first recorded in 1685 (also Scottish 'warlok,' before 1585)." From "The Barnhart Concise Dictionary of Etymology: The Origins of American English Words" by Robert K. Barnhart (HarperCollinsPublishers, New York, Revised edition of "The Barnhart Dictionary of Etymology, 1988). Page 870.
Note -- the ae in waerloga and waer are squished together. I have no idea what that means but some of the word types here might know.
WARLOCKS/WITCHES -- "...their male counterparts have been called 'warlocks,' from two Old English words meaning 'oath breaker,' for 'warlocks' were supposed to be demons who had broken with their true faith..." "Morris Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins" by William and Mary Morris (HarperCollins Publishers, New York, 1977). Page 601.

As I've said before... few people that are seasoned followers of the Pagan Way use the term. A Witch is a Witch regardless of gender... but hey, what's Ray Buckland or Oberon Zell know? They both could be wrong... though I have my doubts!

I found this little blurb on "Warlock" -
Note: the site I found it on is not a religous based site, but an academic study of linguistics, with loads of word origins with no religious connection at all, so there is no evident bias here:

I think it's just a cool sounding word ;-)
Interesting mention of diabolical here, as "dia" means "two", as in dialogue, or diagram (2 dimensional representation), or diagonal (formed by 2 lines)..etc..
now we would probably use the term "duplicitous" to mean the the original meaning.

I remember Oberon Zell before he was Oberon - his real first name is Timothy.

Scary, if one is a Python fan...!

Lee Darrow, C.H.

Is there any connection between the fay, fairies, and the travelling fair folk?

Anybody can tell me if the word “Thaumatomane” does really exists?

Thanks in advance.

For enrique: http://www.lpelab.org/psycho_et_histoire/Lemalefan.htm

any hope on the fairy/fay/fair folk distinctions?

Thanks Jonathan!

That’s the only link I have found. Seems like the word does exist in french.

Uh, yeah in my extensive studies and own religeous beliefs, the term warlock has been used to mean a liar or "oath breaker" (see above). When I was immersed in the ways of the earth based religeons I learned that a male "witch" is called a witch. Kind of like how now, a woman who acts is called an actor, not an actress. It is all semantics really. I just want everyone who posts on these things to check their spelling! It really bothers me to see such bad spelling errors from some of you. I mean if you read as much as we all probably should, our spelling should be better. Now, I don't mean the occasional misspelling of words like, the or they, or simple slips. I mean I've seen some butchered words here. Im excluding the members for which english is a second language. I mean I've seen, justus (justice), jipped (gyped), wedgie (ouija), expirience (experience) espectator (spectator). I mean guys, in the world, grammar and spelling carry weight. It also affects how you are percieved. Imagine a sales letter poorly worded full of spelling errors. Im not saying I don't make mistakes, and when I do I expect someone to correct me. I don't care what words you use, just spell them correctly!

Hey... we used to call him OTTER... does that bring back memories?

I guess old hippies are all on the same wave length...